Arbitron ratings for Satellite Radio

Look at those country numbers. Maybe now Sirius will stop ignoring the country section.

Oh god, lets see how the pests will spin this shit now.

"They were suspended during this time"
"This doesn't count metro markets"
"0.0 have encouraged us to report listening on FM stations, not XM"

We get it. They have bragged for 2 years that more people listen to them on XM. Now we have proof they are LIARS. I really don't see any point for Mel to keep them on when the merger is done. Nobody will miss them OBVIOUSLY from the ratings, and they are just barely hanging on to their terrestrial stations. 2 years and they are done from the airwaves. And who ALWAYS wins in the end?? Thats what I thought.

Before this devolves into another Stern V. O&A battle, I'll make one quick point...

Mainstream programming works on SDARS. Most listeners aren't interested in niche channels unlike anything on FM. They want what many disparage as "FM without commercials." That's why Sirius leads at retail. That's why 20 on 20 and Hits 1 are so popular. That's why the biggest name in the history of FM is the biggest name on SatRad.

Satellite Radio and Terrestrial Radio are the same businesses. The 2 primary differences are the delivery model (Terr v. Sat), and the revenue model (Ads v. Subs) But ultimately they are both about getting more people to listen to you in their cars, then listen to the other guy! And the way to do that is to appeal to the masses, IMHO.

well well.....SFN is large and in charge. (usually very very large.)

Hey asshole, why the need to mention O&A? If they are so small and don't matter...why do you care. Surely you would know nothing about the show if you didn't listen.

Oh wait...you know how long they've been on air, what they have been saying.

Oh yeah, you know their sayings "always win in the end".

Well fine, forget about that....you got your thumb on the pulse of orbitcast (anonymous coward), so where did you get those interesting thoughts? They look like they were lifted from a website...perhaps a O&A message board?

So you aren't a fan...you want to knock them, yet you know all about the show, how long they've been on air, their sayings "always win in the end" and you know their unoffical message board.

Keep lurking asshole. Tough guys ALWAYS trash talk on message boards. Hide behind your work computer that someone else is paying for and do the job you are being for which you are obviously being over paid to do.

I have afternoons free and made more this week than you have in your last year in your 9-5 job.

email me at oavirusxm202@yahoo.com and i'll show you the bronx....seriously i'm in midtown and would love to knock that smirk of your huge down sydrome head.

Wow, when O&A fans are beaten down with facts, they sink to threats over the internet. "Hey man, I'll kick your ass!" Pathetic assholes. You lose. Howard has close to 2 million people listening to him on both his channels and O&A have 200,000 people listening to them. I remember that there was audio posted on SFN where Opie says more people are listening to them than Howard on satellite radio alone. Wow. And you idiot pests believed it. It crow and die.

from reading the arbitron info if there was any question on where the content was heard it was counted as being fm so the boys have a out to use

get a NY Driver's license Jorge

get a NY Driver's license Jorge

sad day for o&a fans first philly drops them then you find out stern is killing on satellite

It scares me that none of my favorite stations are above .10: Fred, First Wave, X Country, Disorder, Loft, Fine Tuning. I must be uncool.

If I were the "boys" I wouldn't use FM content as an "out" considering their ratings suck, they're getting hammered by Whoopi Goldberg, and they're losing affiliated left and right.

ovaherenow, you're pathetic. This "I'll beat you up" child talk is making you pests look even worse.

amazing - of all the folks I know who have satellite radio - not a one has ever mentioned that they were polled from arbitron as to what channels they listen to, yet here are ratings.
we have had Sirius for over 4 years now - wife and I have 5 subscriptions - every vehicle and both at work and home.
I listen to the bluegrass channel sometimes, but more listeners to bluegrass on Sirius than to jam on? and margaritaville has only one third as many as country? some of these numbers are a bit hard to believe, but so are some tv ratings from neilson.
I'll continue to enjoy the grateful dead channel, radio margaritaville, blue collar and howard stern - and throw in a mix of bluegrass, octane and the vault for those times when variety is the name of the game.
now just pass the merger so we can have baseball, too.
satellite radio is on all day - all over north america, enjoy it everywhere you go -
tener corazón de oro

http://media.putfile.com/Opie-says-The-Virus-has-more-listeners-than-Howard-100

It really doesn't matter anyway...The merger is almost complete--FM is canceling the O&A show in some other PRIME market every other day ... and Uncle Mel will not only deliver the stock price we have been waiting for but also the heads of O&A....on a silver platter. lol....!

http://media.putfile.com/Eric-Logan-Doesnt-Know-If-OA-Have-A-Bigger-Audience-Than-Stern

Eric Logan lied to O&A, saying that "The Virus" is the number 1 channel in XM.

I was shocked on how bad XMU was doing. I mean that channel is non-stop special programming, and DJ's. But I think because of this report, we might see the axing of channels in the near future.

But here's the thing, the international market needs to be put to the side until after the merger. I mean look at this, good channels go because of space constraints, while no Canadians are listening to their channels. I mean 3900 for the French channels, at best? Come on, that's pathetic. And CNN En Espanol needs to go. I mean sure the world market is important, but they shouldn't be prioritized over good channels. Ax all but a couple.

WOW.... Opie and Anthony are taking a beating the pest couple of weeks. Its like punching the biggest guy in the bar and he doesn't even flinch. O&A should have just left ole Howie alone.

I truly think the reason the people in Pittsburgh did not like them was because of the arrogance and the Howard bashing.

I think they're lousy bs ratings for both Howard and O&A. The books were sent out to households excluding most major cities in the U.S. to people who may or may not have satellite radio?

Uhh yeah

I think they're lousy bs ratings for both Howard and O&A. The books were sent out to households excluding most major cities in the U.S. to people who may or may not have satellite radio?

Uhh yeah

Here's something interesting. NASCAR radio is more listened to than NFL radio. NFL should switch to XM, that's what turns me on.

Here's something interesting. NASCAR radio is more listened to than NFL radio. NFL should switch to XM, that's what turns me on.

H100 crushed them. Whats really bad is when H101 which plays a Howard West Coast Replay, Bubba the Love Sponge, & Ferrell beat the Virus by almost double.

Artie Lange - that's funny.
Ned for president.

Bubba and Ferrall are beating O&A and Ron and Fez by more than doubling their numbers. So sad.

O&A's XM + FM listeners > Hoo Hoo's SIRI listeners

Math so simple even waterhead Stern kiddies can understand.

The truth hurts, doesn't it?

Wow, it is IMPOSSIBLE for O&A to spin this into a positive. They are getting crushed by not only Howard 100 but both of his channels. I mean CRUSHED. Finally some hard data proving what's most level-headed people suspected all along. Hahahaha

The only reason people subscribe to Sirius is for Howard?? This data shows that the rest of Sirius is just plain SHIT..

>>> Wow, it is IMPOSSIBLE for O&A to spin this into a positive. They are getting crushed by not only Howard 100 but both of his channels. I mean CRUSHED.

When you look at the COST of O&A to XM versus the COST of Howard to Sirius, there is no question which is the better value to the two companies and it sure as hell isn't Howard.

But Stern claims he has 6.5 million listners.

But Stern claims he has 6.5 million listners.

This all just shows that if XM signed Stern instead of Sirius, there would be no need for a merger today and Sirius would be out of business.

DAMN, SPIN THAT!

12+ ratings are PURELY for ego. Ask any radio exec. These ratings are for ALL PEOPLE, 12 and older. in the 18-31 demo, or whatever it is, O&A might be beating Stern. Also, this is based on number of subscribers, too, and percentages (correct me if i'm wrong.) Just to show how neutral i am, I own a sirius radio. Stern's OK, but only on his pre-show-starting bits; I usually listen to 108 - Maxim Radio. I don't own an XM b/c Sirius lets you pay w/ programming gift cards, w/o requiring cred cards.
I listen to O&A in afternoon drive, as they're not live here (Rover's king of morning drive in Cleveland.) And i'll proudly admit that i love o&A.
Not gonna lie though, WCKG's prob gonna be the next to flip formats, dropping not only O&A but all the rest of its staff, except maybe Dahl.

12-minus ratings are PURLEY O&A

Hey ovaherenow...
Those O&A pest "attacks" and trolling SFN days should be ending soon. O&A should have never been compared to Howard. It went to their heads and they thought they could compete with HS. They are learning the hard way...
Saying that, I hope XM keeps them on and you pests can still listen and enjoy, just don't compare the bbboys to Hoo-Hoo, you will always lose in the end.

btw I live in the Bronx......

A couple of things:

To the extent that you can trust ANY survey that relies on old-fashioned diaries, it is true that, if you combine O&A's audience on FM radio with their XM audience, O&A has more listeners than Howard.

The more surprising thing is that Howard's audience -- his total radio audience -- isn't larger than 1.22 million.

Also: The gap between the cumulative audience for XM and the cumulative audience for Sirius is greater than the gap between the official subscriber counts for XM and Sirius, probably due to the fact that XM counts paying customers as subscribers, while Sirius counts new cars on lots as subscribers.

If O&A's ratings are so great on FM, why do markets continue to drop them? They are 2nd to last place in NY. 0.0...Zero Point Zero...0.0!!!!!!

First, I think Ryan should delete these infantile "opinions" shown above. Then again, they are testimony to the sort of people Howard and O&A attract.

Second, it is truly interesting that "20 on 20" is the No. 2 station. Every SatRad subscriber complains about terrestrial's repetition, predictable playlists and monotony as the reason they pay fees for radio- and the first station they flock to is the most repetitious out of all 170 stations. As far as XMU is concerned, REAL college stations like WNYU and WFUV have much better and more interesting programming. Since I enjoy college radio, I did try really hard to like XMU- but they're not getting it done on content.

The one thing I need to point out here, is that people who say "O&A's audience from XM and FM combined equals blah blah blah" isn't entirely true. Add those numbers up, sure, but there's probably a decent amount of overlap. FM listeners aren't all brand new seperate people from XM. A lot of them are the same listeners, lowering that number at least a little bit...Not saying it wouldn't be true, but it may not be as big as you think.

Anyways, It makes me sad how little listership other stations get on Sirius, though. I know it's not 100% accurate by any means, but still.

More people need to listen too Deep Tracks and XCountry

Response to "The Truth":

1. "his total radio audience -- isn't larger than 1.22 million."

He has a much larger audience. The average is for how many listeners at one time. Howard replays his show 3 times on H100 and once on H101. Do the math the 1.2 x 3 = 3.6 million plus the 500k he gets on H101 = a little over 4 million. To further back this fact up there were less than a million Sirius subscribers before Howard and now there is 7 million.

2. "O&A's audience on FM radio with their XM audience, O&A has more listeners than Howard."

O&A are being dropped in markets left and right. They came in 2nd to last in NY and were just dropped in Philly. Even with all their markets I seriously doubt they have more than 4 million.

3. "The gap between the cumulative audience for XM and the cumulative audience for Sirius is greater than the gap between the official subscriber counts for XM and Sirius, probably due to the fact that XM counts paying customers as subscribers, while Sirius counts new cars on lots as subscribers."

XM has just as many car sponsorships as Sirius. To say listeners don't count because they have a trial due to buying a new car is stupid. A listener counts as a listener.

Why is is such a big deal that Howard does well? Don't be as insure as the hosts you idolize.

This is quite possibly the most interesting bit ever posted at Orbitcast...

Going by the most recently recorded sub numbers, the aggregate AQH and Cume are interesting...

For Sirius, at an average moment, 619,400 people are listening to the service, which is 8.7% of the most recent subscriber count.

For XM, at an average moment, 798,900 people are listening, which is 9.7% of the most recent subscriber count.

Of course, around 10% of Sirius' subs are parking lot subs and don't contribute any Arbitron listenership. Taking them out, Sirius' AQH/subscriber ratio moves to 9..7%.

When hs Arbitron become accurate???? I will repeat what was mentioned earlier.... did anyone you know fill out this survey?

I'm not going get into the O&A vs. Howie argument.... but I assume E-LO knows more about XM numbers than Arbitron........

"He has a much larger audience. The average is for how many listeners at one time."

To ArtieLange: FWIW, that is not what CUME means. CUME is not an average... it is a figure that counts the number of different persons that tune in for a minimum of 5 minutes during the stated daypart. The daypart stated in this ratings release is Mon-Sun, 6A-12A (leaving out the overnights)... it says that Howard 100 had CUME of 1.2 million during that daypart. That means that 1.2 million DIFFERENT persons checked out his channel during the week. Not more, but not less... but rather 1.2 million.

AQH is the Average amount of listening at any one time... which is 96,700 AQH.

Speaking of which Ryan... if you see this... your blog above says that CUME means "unduplicated persons or households"... while it does mean unduplicated persons -- it does not mean unduplicated households. You may be confusing this with Neilsen. With Arbitron, a whole family could all have a diary for ratings -- and all individually mark down the same program or channel -- however they would be counted seperately. Not a biggie, but that kinda jumped out at me when I read your story.

BTW, I posted some AQH share figures on Yahoo if you're interested in checking them out... I posted the Top 20 channels combined -- based on AQH Share. It's pretty interesting to see.

One final thing -- this is not directed at anyone, but just an FYI to those bashing each other here... yes Stern did kick ass in these ratings. But don't underestimate O&A. The Virus finished in the Top 10 overall between XM and Sirius in AQH Share (number 7 channel for XM in fact). AQH is basically the overall listening during the book.

----

(Ryan, I forgot to do the "orbitcast" thing... please check the quarantine :) )

One way to compare the different takes on the same format when it comes time to whittle down the merged lineup would be to divide the channel AQH by the service AQH (to control for differences in service usage). Those channels whose subscribers are listening longer are presumably doing a better job...

CHR/2000s: Hits 1 pulls 2.86, 20 on 20 2.73, Hitlist 1.16, and Kiss cm pulls 0.39 (admittedly Kiss's listenership gets dragged down by most markets having a CC Kiss FM... someone who only logs it as "Kiss" will probably be logged as listening to Kiss FM). Those numbers would suggest that Hits 1 and Hitlist survive, with the latter having more of an emphasis on stuff from 2000 to 2005. The format scorecard is Sirius 2.86 - 4.28 XM.

AC: StarLite pulls 0.69, Sirius Love 0.61, Movin EZ 1.13, The Blend 3.39, The Heart 2.39, Sunny cm 0.80, and Escape gets 2.25. Something of a landslide for XM (totals are 8.83 for XM vs 2.43 for Sirius): the course would appear to favor keeping the 3 XM produced channels along with Movin EZ (since Movin EZ fills a niche as a classic vocal AC channel, which is distinct from the newer AC on The Blend and the beautiful music of Escape).

'40s: default judgement for XM

Oldies: Sirius Gold surprisingly (to me, at least, and I'd suspect also whomever decided to fire the DJs on Gold) beats '60s Vibrations: 1.95 to 1.73. The '60s on XM beats The '50s 2.72 to 1.86. Elvis Radio, on a related island, pulls in 0.68. It's not difficult to say that the lineup should be Sirius Gold and The '60s, with the non rock 'n' roll on The '50s exiled to The '40s (which would probably end up with a rebranding, obviously). Contractual obligations would likely keep Elvis around. XM wins another format, but this is the closest one yet: 4.58 to 4.36.

Classic Hits: Another split with XM handily winning the Battle of the '70s 2.25 to 1.39, while Sirius ekes out a narrow victory in the Reagan Decade 1.99 to 1.94. Keep The '70s and Big '80s. A similar format score: XM wins 4.19 to 3.38.

The '90s: Sirius nolo contendres again...

Mellow rock/Folk/Coffeehouse/Singer-Songwriter: This one's a tough one to define, especially without crossing the line into Triple A. Sirius wins this little-listened-to category 3.03 to 1.28. Of course, direct comparison is difficult (Sirius lacks a folk channel, and Margaritaville more than held its own in this group); even The Bridge and the The Loft are apparently somewhat different in approach. The Bridge gets 0.92, Coffeehouse 1.08, Margaritaville 1.03, while The Loft gets 0.63, Hear Music gets 0.45, and The Village has emptied with a 0.2. Logical lineup is The Bridge, Coffeehouse, Margaritaville, and The Village.

(Posting in case something bad happens... this will continue...)

Response to "Artie Lange"

1. You don't know what cume means so let me clear it up for you:
Definition: A radio station's cume is similar to a newspaper's circulation. Abbreviation for cumulative audience. It is the different or unduplicated persons or households listening during a specified period. Here's the link if you think I made that up: http://radio.about.com/library/bldef-11.htm
The cume period in the survey is 6a.m. to midnight. Howard's TOTAL listeners according to Arbitron are 1.22 million on H100 plus 500k on H101 for the entire 18 hour period. Significantly less than your convoluted formula.

2. "XM has just as many car sponsorships as Sirius. To say listeners don't count because they have a trial due to buying a new car is stupid. A listener counts as a listener."

They count subscribers differently. Sirius counts cars installed and XM counts cars activated. Here's a link on that: http://www.orbitcast.com/archives/xm-vs-sirius-subscriber-numbers.html

These diary surveys are often unreliable anyway. I believe that I with two other persons, once boosted a never-listened to AM station in L.A. by filling in that I listened to that station only and often. They went from a 0.2 for two ratings periods prior to a 2.0+ for the book we filled out and went back to 0.1 for the next two books. No proof that we did it alone but it's hard to dismiss that we didn't have an effect.

I have listened to Howard since 1989 and to O&A since 1999, I don't care who hates who. Just use facts (or at least read the damn survey correctly)

It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that Stern beats O&A in ratings -- Sirius basically staked their entire existence on the Stern deal working out. I think that Stern's numbers do kind of show how foolish some more rabid Stern fans are when they try to give him total credit for Sirius' growth -- how can you say he added 7 million subscribers when it appears about 1.2 million actually listen to his show?

O&A, on the other hand, has always been sort of a misfit child in the XM family. Oh, XM wants them to do well, I suppose, but they've always kind of pushed them down the list. Even with that, they do have a devoted following on satellite radio, and Karmazin would be utterly foolish to kick them out the door when and if the merger works. If I were Mel, I'd try to get them to give up on FM and move to afternoons. Stern in the morning, O&A in the afternoon would be a really great 1-2 punch to sell units to people who like the rapidly disappearing "hot talk" format. And all the Orbitcast dustups between fanatic fans on both sides aside, the audiences are very compatible with each other. Why not?

Am I the only one concerned about Sirius' overall cume and AQH compared to XM's? When you compare the subscriber counts, that's a very low number. Does this mean there's a great deal of Sirius subscribers who never turn their radios on?! To me, that's a big issue. Why aren't subscribers bothering to even turn their radios on? And how can we get them to turn them on?

International pop: both channels are programmed outside the satellite colossus, so neither can be axed that easily. BBC Radio 1 pulls 0.14 vs. UPop's 0.13.

Adult Hits: XM nolo contendres.

Classic Rock: XM sweeps the older, newer, and deeper categories. Top Tracks wrecks Vinyl 2.87-1.68 and Deep Tracks beats The Vault 1.00-0.66. Classic Rewind comes the closest to victory for Sirius, with that contest being 1.70-1.49. Overall it's 5.57 for XM versus 3.83 for Sirius.

Jam Band: XM nolo contendres. This study doesn't cover Grateful Dead Radio.

Triple A: The Spectrum scores 0.60, Iceberg a pitiful 0.62, and XM Cafe 0.66. Slight format victory to XM. XM Cafe survives and Iceberg should probably melt, but CanCon will keep it alive.

Active Rock: Basically a clean sweep for Sirius. Buzzsaw pulls 1.13, Octane 2.84, Hair Nation 1.94, Hard Attack 0.48, and Faction 6.75; Boneyard scores 1.18, Squizz 1.43, and XMLM 0.25. 6.39 overall for Sirius versus 2.86 for XM. Put the Boneyard, Squizz, and XMLM out of their misery.

Alternative: A near-sweep for Sirius. Alt Nation nearly doubles Ethel (1.40-0.74), 1st Wave handily beats Fred (0.74-0.45), Lithium edges out Lucy (1.44-1.40), Left of Center trounces XMU (0.37-0.09), Punk doubles up Fungus (0.37-0.19). XM scores on CanCon as The Verge scores 0.04 to CBC Radio 3's zero... point... zero... zero. Sirius scores 0.13 on an uncontested layup with Underground Garage. 4.45-2.91 to Sirius overall.

Free-form: Disorder - 0.18; Fine Tuning - 0.11

Dance/Electronic: Not really up on dance/electronic, so I can't really make the comparisons... Area 33: 0.37, Boombox: 0.18, Chill Siri: 0.24, The Beat: 0.44, The Strobe: 0.26, The Move: 0.14, BPM: 0.55, The System: 0.16, Chrome: 0.28, Chill XM: 0.18. Sirius: 1.49, XM: 1.31

Rap/Hip-Hop: see dance/electronic for why I won't make picks here. Hip Hop Nation: 0.63, Back Spin: 0.32, Shade 45: 0.74; The Rhyme: 0.21, Raw: 0.61. Sirius: 1.69, XM: 0.82

R&B & CHR/Urban: Hot Jamz: 0.94, Heart & Soul: 0.44, Soul Town: 0.37; Soul Street: 0.99, Suite 62: 1.36, The City: 0.66, The Heat: 0.74. Sirius: 1.75, XM 3.75

Country: New Country: 3.29, Prime Country: 1.31, Roadhouse: 1.61, Outlaw Country: 0.77, Bluegrass: 0.60; America: 1.18, Nashville: 1.05, X Country: 0.40, Willie's Place: 3.12, Bluegrass Jct: 0.83, Highway 16: 2.33, US Country: 1.23. Sirius: 7.58, XM: 10.14

Christian: Spirit Siri: 0.95, Praise: 0.42. The Message: 0.91, Spirit XM: 0.88, Enlighten: 0.75. Sirius: 1.37, XM: 2.54

Someone else can continue this work...

IINM, TSL can be derived from AQH and Cume by dividing Cume by (4*AQH) (homer?)...

XM overall TSL: 3.23 hours
SIRI overall TSL: 2.66 hours

H100 TSL: 3.17 hours
H101 TSL: 4.09 hours
Virus TSL: 2.61 hours

>>> Am I the only one concerned about Sirius' overall cume and AQH compared to XM's? When you compare the subscriber counts, that's a very low number. Does this mean there's a great deal of Sirius subscribers who never turn their radios on?! To me, that's a big issue. Why aren't subscribers bothering to even turn their radios on?

It is a great point -- someone pointed out on yahoo that Sirius counts as subs a lot of empty vehicles. But the lack of interest in SIRI's non-Stern channels ought to be cause for concern for both companies, as it may well account for some of the slacking in sales at retail. How many people get Sirius, are turned off by it, and never even try XM?

How many times have we all heard, "The music's about the same"? Well, it clearly isn't. How many times have we heard pro-Sirius fanatics proclaim "content is king"? Well, it may be, but it sure looks as though Sirius has some work to do (if they can't luck into a merger).

How many fucking times...oh, how many more fucking times are we going to go through this. Don't both you Stern and O &A fans ever actually think, write or do anything else in your lives? Judging from the comments here, I suspect that the energy expended on making your favorite show look better than the other really isn't doing much good accept showing what big dicks you all have. It's gotten to the point now where if I see the names Howard and O&A mentioned on this site, I know what I'm gonna get. a story about the ratings or some other aspect of one of them, and about 50 plus comments of the fans of each one, knocking the other one. Stern fans, I have an honest question for you. You won't answer it, but i'll go ahead and expend the energy and ask any way in hopes that maybe it'll get through. Howard obviously beat O&A in the ratings. Why in the hell can't you all just say congrats Howard, you kicked everyone's asses! and actually be happy? This continual bashing helps no one. Fans of the other show aren't going to sit there, read the posts and go oh, shit, the Stern fans were right all these years, what in hell was i thinking? You can't make someone like another show based on comments made here. Howard is successful. He beat O&A. Enjoy it. You got what you wanted.

I'm not real surprised by the information thats been published ,one thing you must understand is the motive behind it,first,then wonder how much was excluded based on some type of error iin the diary..

also why not use the ppm device? after all the arbitron service is used by whom buyers and stations.

oh but you must pay to get the benefit of listing boy that just robs the stations and buyers......was it not mel whom said no were not going to use arbitron..

The King of All Media is confirmed the King of Sat Rad. Stern has more paying listeners than O&A or Imus or Mancow have free.

Every time one of these artilcles comes up and the sides start warring, I notice one reoccuring theme in particular. A lot of Howard's fans want O&A off the air and would seem to take a great delight in that happening. I don't really see that from the O&A fans in their bashing of Stern.

Why is that exactly? I don't think "because they suck, because they're clones, because they secretly listen to Howard too, etc" really explains that.

i would like to echo the comments of those who are concerned about the low #s accross the sdars dial. it is easy to forget what a die-hard core audience frequents orbitcast. the fact is even though the #s may not be the most accurate the majority of people simply do not share our love for satrad. heck you could even make the point that howards huge #s prove the fact that most people followed him here from terr radio and dont care about the rest of what xm/siri have to offer. face it folks.......we ARE a small group of loyal listeners and is that such a bad thing? well maybe it is.....the merger alone shows that two companies cant survive and to me this is negative for the diversity that the core group loves about satellite.

Correction: Iceberg scores 0.02... 0.62 is the Sirius total for the format.

Also, under active rock (must not post when tired...) it's 0.36 for Faction, 6.75 for Sirius' total.

>> It is a great point -- someone pointed out on yahoo that Sirius counts as subs a lot of empty vehicles.

Interestingly, if you look at AQH as a percentage of subscriptions, it comes out to 9.7% of XM's sub base (at end of Q2, which was roughly the period when the numbers are for) versus 8.8% of Sirius' base. The actual computation was in the post that I forgot the "orbitcast" thing on...

However, taking into account that 10% of the sub count for Sirius was parking lot and not likely to contribute *any* diary listenership, computing the same figure based on that adjusted subscriber figure leaves Sirius with 9.7% of the subscribers listening at any given time.

That also indicates that the sample Arbitorn used is at least properly balanced between the two services.

I wouldn't characterize the numbers for Sirius' non-Stern channels as poor. Yes Sirius sees much more of a tentpole distribution with Howard 100/101. All that says is that people listen more to H100/101 than to other channels. Since you can only listen to one channel at a time, time spent listening to Stern & Co. is time not spent listening to Octane.

When you compare the overall cumes with the channel cumes (such figures counting someone who listens to a channel for 5 minutes equally with someone listening for 6 hours), there's not a significant variation between the services.

And I was wrong on the TSL formula, it's (Quarter-hours in a time period x AQH)/Cume. I believe these are weekly averages, so the common time-base in AQH and Cume is 504 quarter hours.

Sirius overall TSL: 47.34 quarter hours (11.83 hours)
XM overall TSL: 38.97 quarter hours (9.74 hours)

Howard 100 TSL: .316 quarter hours (.080 hours)
Howard 101 TSL: .245 quarter hours (.061 hours)
Virus TSL: .384 quarter hours (.096 hours)

So O&A have a smaller but more hardcore fanbase than Stern does (not surprising when you consider how much noise the few pests are able to make).

Scale the channel TSLs by a factor of 126, I'm an idiot...

Howard 100 TSL: 39.8 quarter hours (9.95 hours)
Howard 101 TSL: 30.8 quarter hours (7.70 hours)
Virus TSL: 48.35 quarter hours (12.09 hours)

The funny thing is that Bubba kicks O and A's ass also. Not good!

apparently, most of the posts made here are done by kids posturing about Stern - o+a -
get over yourselves already. this is not about that at all.
get a life, grow up, move out of your mom's basement and get a real job.
some of us are close to retirement, and sateliite radio is a nice extra in our lives - it is NOT
our entire lives - it's ENTERTAINMENT, it's RADIO!
breathe in, breathe out, move on.
peace to the rest if you with actual opinions about satellite radio.
now get back to work

apparently, most of the posts made here are done by kids posturing about Stern - o+a -
get over yourselves already. this is not about that at all.
get a life, grow up, move out of your mom's basement and get a real job.
some of us are close to retirement, and sateliite radio is a nice extra in our lives - it is NOT
our entire lives - it's ENTERTAINMENT, it's RADIO!
breathe in, breathe out, move on.
peace to the rest if you with actual opinions about satellite radio.
now get back to work

apparently, most of the posts made here are done by kids posturing about Stern - o+a -
get over yourselves already. this is not about that at all.
get a life, grow up, move out of your mom's basement and get a real job.
some of us are close to retirement, and sateliite radio is a nice extra in our lives - it is NOT
our entire lives - it's ENTERTAINMENT, it's RADIO!
breathe in, breathe out, move on.
peace to the rest if you with actual opinions about satellite radio.
now get back to work

sorry for the multiple posts -

Sure this isn't the best news for O&A, but I have to question those who are ripping O&A saying how good their numbers are. We all know satellite radio has never provided ratings before, and the only info O&A have gotten is from their boss, Eric Logan who is the one who told them they're #1 on XM.

This also isn't really that great of news for Stern fans either. Ok, sure Howard is the #1 show in satellite radio, but just over 1 million listeners is all he's got?? I thought Howard had over 6 million listeners.?. That's what he's always said. (Sirius had 600,000 subs when he announced he was going to Sirius, they now have over 6 million subs.....according to Howard math.....that means he has over 6 million listeners.

So I wouldn't be too celebratory if I were a Stern fan. You also have to consider those who want to hear Howard badly enough have no choice but to get Sirius. In many cities those who wanted to hear O&A had the FM option, so they competed against themselves.

I'm not quite going to give a whole lot of validity to the very first Arbitron ratings on satellite radio. I'll give it another go around or two before I consider it 'gospel.'

Besides, I think XM & Sirius both have better ideas about their own ratings, and I'd be more prone to believe them than Arbitron.

Ratings are shit...TV, Radio, whatever...when you pay 12.95/month for radio, why do you care what a ratings system developed for over the air medium says? I have both...listen to both...personally think O&A are more entertaining, but I listen to Howard in the car because he too has a good radio show (as long as its him and not some wrap up or fan round table)...both are great radio shows you douches...both will make you laugh...neither will get you laid because you listen.

If these numbers were calculated during O&A's suspension, then you do have to acknowledge that..I don't know either way and odds are neither do any of you.

I'm rather not concerned about the low numbers.
It appears to me the numbers are diluted by the high numbers of channels on each platform.
Having the top 10 of 170 channels doesn't really mean that much to me.
Am I missing some magic mathematics concept that "top ten" does not really apply here?

>> Speaking of which Ryan... if you see this... your blog above says that CUME means "unduplicated persons or households"... while it does mean unduplicated persons -- it does not mean unduplicated households. You may be confusing this with Neilsen. With Arbitron, a whole family could all have a diary for ratings -- and all individually mark down the same program or channel -- however they would be counted seperately. Not a biggie, but that kinda jumped out at me when I read your story.

@homer985: Thanks for catching that. I'll update the post to remove the "households." Much appreciated.

just one comment....

hahahahhhaha hahahah ahah ahahahah ahahaha hahahah ahahaha hahaha hahahaha hahahahaha hahhahahaha hahahahaha hahah ahah ahahahah ahahahah hahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

ha

finally.

So Sirius is paying Stern $410 per listener. Sounds like a good investment!

>> You lose. >>

'Lose'? Lose what?

The O&A fans get to listen to the superior show every day and laugh our collective asses off. The only 'losers' in this scenario are those who somehow think they're tuning in to a quality show every day over on the Doggie service.

leviramsey: You've got it now. Good job.

Ryan: No problem. Let me also suggest that you check out this thread on Yahoo too -- regarding more info on the calculation and comparison of ratings. CUME is good, but not everything. I think I was able to summorize it pretty good in this post:
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_X/threadview?m=tm&bn=20286&tid=1024616&mid=1024626&tof=4&frt=2

@Pete: O&A LOST. They lost any potential cannon fodder they had when it comes to ratings. They lost any credibility they had with their listeners by talking about Howard's ratings compared to theirs. They lost any hope they had for creating a "buzz" about Howard being old news. They lost, and its been proven now in the numbers and not just by what everyone sane already knew.

Fin.

If XM and Sirius are able to merge, will there still be a stupid arguement over O&A and Howard Stern? Who cares? I just want satellite radio to suceed because I can't handle regular radio. It sucks. I can't handle commercials and censorship. Besides the fact I can dial up exactly what I want to listen to. Depending on the market you live in, there may not be a station that reflects your tastes. Satellite gives you options.

Can someone explain the ratings to me? I though cinemagic was the #1 channel.

Can someone explain the ratings to me? I though cinemagic was the #1 channel.

First of all I grew up on Howard Stern. I loved his show. Psycho fan, watched the early Pay Per View specials, got with friends on weekends to watch his infamous channel 9 (WWOR) show, bought the books, saw the movie. Then in the mid to late 90's, once Jackie M. was gone and Howard got divorced, I felt the magic of the show was gone. I'd still listen because I was faithful, but I was no longer going into work late in the morning because I had to sit in my car until a commercial break because a bit or segment was so great I couldn't miss it.

Around this same time, in the afternoon, I would get stuck in traffic on the Van Wyck driving home from work. I worked at JFK airport for Verizon and lived on the other side of Queens. When I first heard O&A on WNEW and thought they sucked ass. They represented every douche I hated from Long Island NY growing up. I felt like I was listening to a conversation full of inside jokes from a circle I didn’t belong to and couldn’t relate to. For some reason I would continue to listen to them. Maybe just to piss myself off. After a while something clicked and I began to get what they were doing. I didn’t feel like an outsider anymore. Instead I began to feel like part the group. I was losing the mentality that I can only listen to Howard. These guys were closer in age to me. They were often referring to the movies and music that I grew up on. I have been a loyal fan of theirs for many years now. They are the reason I got XM in the first place. Even still, I never felt the need to spew venom about Howard. His show had become something that didn’t appeal to me anymore. I didn’t hate it; I just didn’t feel compelled to listen any more. Artie Lang was really what turned me off more than anything. I just didn’t find him funny at all.

I have been an XM subscriber for three years now and couldn’t imagine going back to FM. Blech!! I personally feel the music channels on XM are better than Sirius and as I already stated, I am a huge Opie and Anthony fan. Personally I don't want this merger to go through. I don't want to compromise what I have on XM with stuff from Sirius. But as anonymous coward stated earlier, I too would rather have some form of satellite radio then none at all. If the merger is necessary for the two companies to survive, then I would rather that then see the two companies die and have nothing. If customer’s satisfaction is paramount then I believe that both O&A and Howard should be made available. I think it's necessary to have both; I don’t want the merger to take away my choices. My family is split down the middle. Half have XM and listen to Opie and Anthony, the other half have Sirius and listen to Howard. Despite the hate that can be seen between the two camps on various message boards, we (my family) all seem to get along just fine. My brother and I close even though I like O&A and he likes Howard. Different people, different tastes. I wouldn’t want to see Howard go away because he enjoys it, and think he feels that same way about O&A for me.

Bottom line, I think life would be pretty lame without choices and conflict. The feuding that goes on between the two camps keeps things interesting. At the end of the day I would hope that everyone has a choice of what they want to listen to. There is an audience for O&A, Howard, and yes, even Cinemagic (which I personally dig when they play Horror stuff). I believe that O&A fans and Howard fans should continue to claw each other’s eyes out because that is a choice that they have the right to make. It’s good to feel passionate about something. If O&A survive the merger just think of how much more fun both camps will have ripping each other apart. I used my real name when writing this post because to be honest, I don't really give care what anyone thinks about what I’ve said. I personally don’t feel the need to feed the egos of radio personalities by fighting their battles and defending their honor. Those who do, more power to you. Whatever floats your boat. If you made it this far, thanks for reading

Wow, O&A fans are in full spin. I guess I would be to considering O&A and crashing and burning, as Howard predicted.

Wow, O&A fans are in full spin. I guess I would be to considering O&A and crashing and burning, as Howard predicted.

As I said before, I listen to both (yes, each day)...I just enjoy talk radio...and I've heard all this same nonsense for a long time...my prediction is that when Artie finally dies in some tragic fashion, which everyone can see coming, the humanity in both camps will come to surface and maybe we'll get to the point where neither show worries about the other one and they just worry about doing shows for the listeners...it'll be the one great thing Artie brings to this whole retarded mess...I could give two shits who beats who in "ratings"...they are here for my entertainment...and obviously 16.93 million other cumes or AQH's...what the fuck?

My best friend is a O&A fan and I'm a die hard Howard fan. I constantly get shit from my friend because he says things like, "Howard's washed up, He's old news, He thinks he invented radio". All this shit that O&A fill his head with. I think over the many years that I've been listening to Howard I've heard him mention O&A maybe five or six times. He doesn't give a shit about those guys and why should he? But O&A seem to spend day after day talking shit about Howard and for what? What did Howard ever do to those guys? I don't get it. I don't hate O&A by any means and I would like to listen to their show sometime but I'm so into Howard I just don't have the time. I guess it follows suit like most other things in this world. Once you're on the top, people will do or say anything to bring you down to try to elevate themselves.

"So Sirius is paying Stern $410 per listener. Sounds like a good investment!"

More like 295 since you have to include the 100 + 101 stats.

this also does not cover the total subs, only average so its safe to say it might be 50% higer number.

still even at say 250 per sub its a lot of money...overpaid...to stern i have to agree there.

but then again he is the reason why siri has outsold XM and became a bigger brand name then XM....so i would say "priceless"

So they didn't even poll subscribers? Arbitron is the worst...if rating the two shows is that important, then you need to have another way that accurately tallies who listens to what...you don't have that now...niether of you can argue which show is better based off of this report...and what happens next quarter if O&A (or Martha Stewart for that matter) rank higher than Stern or Bubba? What if Bubba beats Stern in one of these reports? What do you shitheads do then? Does Bubba become the king of all media? Do the two camps unite and beat up any Bubba fans? Use your energy to show what a farce any of these ratings system are. Change things...don't just fucking argue with each other.

Eric Logan just reported on 202 that internal research proves that 1.4 million listeners tune in to Opie & Anthony on XM. He said the main reasons they were having trouble with Aribitron is that they have no column for the SDARS and if somebody just reports Opie & Anthony and they are in a metro market then its credited to the FM broadcaster, not XM. Stern has no terrestrial coverage, so every mention of listening to talent on Howards channels are properly reported to Sirius. He did make sense about it, but I hope Ryan will put up an article to this effect on Orbitcast.

I think as with any survey one needs to look at how the numbers were attained. From what I have heard these diary's are not specifically geared towards rating satellite numbers. Why have they not sent the diaries to people in major markets and has anyone ever been contacted (or known anyone ) by arbitron?

All im saying is I take these with a grain of salt.

PNess...

FWIW, you cannot add the CUME of both Howard 100 and Howard 101 together when trying to figure out Stern's total CUME size. That's not how CUME works, as there is typically duplication of CUME between channels... meaning, a person can listen to both channels and be counted in the CUME of each channel. If you did combine them, then you could have one listener being counted twice.

Furthermore, Howard 101 is where Bubba is, plus other programming. Can there be some listeners that listen to 101 only -- and not 100? Probably, but the question is "how many?" I would not go so far as to say that there are 1.2M on H100 and 500K on H101-- so that means there are 1.7M altogether... the number is likely closer to 1.4M.

Just some food for thought.

ed baxter - great post -
as a sirius subscriber for 4 years, and with xm on my Directv, I have both services. Started with xm, we changed to Sirius once we heard the jam band channel - jam on 17,
now with Sirius having radiomargaritaville, grateful dead radio and howard and all his programming on 100+101 - we're hooked on Sirius.
the one thing no one seems to mention, is that radio offers, and especially satellite radio -
a random offering that nobody's ipod can offer - music comes up to play in an unpredicatable way - and song combinations that I'm pretty sure NOBODY has in their collection. that's the part I like about radio - you just don't know what you'll hear next.
random mixing of songs that reach outside your personal collection.
by the way, I'm 51 and my wife is 45 - her favorite channel is octane, with lots of others to surf thru.
apparently everyone who has bothered to post here has passion for satellite -
and that's a good thing.
peace

Amen Brother Joe!

I actually have the opposite scenario to yours. I have three XM receivers and Sirius via Dish Network. There are times where I will surf the Sirius channels on my Dish service. I happen to like their new Punk station as well as Totally 70s and Hair Nation. I just happen to prefer XM. I am 37 and my wife is 36 and the two of us can’t fathom the thought of going back to FM. I think all of us, whether we are fans of XM or Sirius, O&A or Howard, would miss satellite radio if it went away. If the two could survive independently, I would be psyched. If they need to merge to continue operating, I just hope they stick to what they have been saying and continue to offer the variety in programming that all of us have come to appreciate. If I had to pick between an 80 Gig iPod filled with every song I could ever want, or satellite radio, I’d pick satellite. Like Joe, I prefer the spontaneity provided by satellite.

Amen Brother Joe!

I actually have the opposite scenario to yours. I have three XM receivers and Sirius via Dish Network. There are times where I will surf the Sirius channels on my Dish service. I happen to like their new Punk station as well as Totally 70s and Hair Nation. I just happen to prefer XM. I am 37 and my wife is 36 and the two of us can’t fathom the thought of going back to FM. I think all of us, whether we are fans of XM or Sirius, O&A or Howard, would miss satellite radio if it went away. If the two could survive independently, I would be psyched. If they need to merge to continue operating, I just hope they stick to what they have been saying and continue to offer the variety in programming that all of us have come to appreciate. If I had to pick between an 80 Gig iPod filled with every song I could ever want, or satellite radio, I’d pick satellite. Like Joe, I prefer the spontaneity provided by satellite.

Amen Brother Joe!

I actually have the opposite scenario to yours. I have three XM receivers and Sirius via Dish Network. There are times where I will surf the Sirius channels on my Dish service. I happen to like their new Punk station as well as Totally 70s and Hair Nation. I just happen to prefer XM. I am 37 and my wife is 36 and the two of us can’t fathom the thought of going back to FM. I think all of us, whether we are fans of XM or Sirius, O&A or Howard, would miss satellite radio if it went away. If the two could survive independently, I would be psyched. If they need to merge to continue operating, I just hope they stick to what they have been saying and continue to offer the variety in programming that all of us have come to appreciate. If I had to pick between an 80 Gig iPod filled with every song I could ever want, or satellite radio, I’d pick satellite. Like Joe, I prefer the spontaneity provided by satellite.

I have both Sirius (2 accounts) and XM (1)
I like the musical variety on XM, and the fact that you can get higher-quality music with a click, not with extra money.
When I first got Sirius, it was mostly to hear non-commercial radio, honestly, I wasn't a Howard Stern fan, just effing tired of all of the commercials (when your commute is 45 minutes one way, and you hear TWO songs in their entirety, that's waaay too many commercials)
However, once I started listening to Howard, I find myself enjoying the show more and more, and have gradually dropped off listening to other channels (except on Fridays, Master Tape Theater is great if you're a hard core fan, but I like Artie)
I haven't listened to O-A yet, so I can't comment on them without really sounding biased (Howard colored glasses) so I won't.
Here's my personal breakdown of why I like both services:
Sirius: PROS: Howard Stern, good variety of my type of music.. I can always find something cool to listen to. The website allows you to listen to many audio streams in fair quality, even though it's blocked at work. They also have many different types of radios which can be picked up for under $100 if you don't mind going with refurbished or even used. I paid a total of $25 for a new, factory wrapped receiver + boom box for home listening. It's far from perfect, but it's cheap and a great way to see if you like the service enough to get a better radio down the road.
CONS: I don't particularly like the Sirius website, it takes a while to get to a station, using one of those crappy graphics that you have to type in the letters in order to listen.
One of my radios (not the cheap one) is losing the antenna connection, and from what I've read about it, it's only the beginning of the end for my little Sirius radio (time to save up for a new one)
Lack of presets when listening online.
No 40s channel... They go back to the 50s, then to "Gold" which plays standards, but it doesn't seem to be focused enough. I don't usually listen to the station, but I think having one that reaches as far back as they can get for music would be cool. I listen to rock/metal mostly, so this isn't a BIG issue, but still an issue. Octane, Buzzsaw, Hair Nation, and Lithium are my favorite music channels, with the old-skool rap station every now and then.

XM Pros: I like the website, it's very easy to find what you want on there, and you can get in with minimal hassle. Higher bandwidth is a click away, and free.
So far, I like my portable XM, even if it's not truly a portable radio (you have to have the passport/dock to listen to live XM on mine, but I'm sure there are others out there that are truly portable.
The quality of the hardware seems better, with more well-known name badges on radios. Sirius went with XACT, a company that I had never heard of, and Kenwood (although it is very hard to find one of these, and they were/are very problematic) for their radios, XM has Delphi, Samsung, Pioneer, etc... These are subject to change of course.
HUGE variety of music, including the 40s channel, not to mention the Cinema radio, and the however many you get online with AOL.
CONS for XM are going to be very sparse, as I haven't had my radio long enough to complain about it yet, but the lack of portability for live radio bugs me.

Bottom line- I will no longer listen to terrestrial radio. Everyone can flame about O-A vs Howard, but it all comes down to one thing: We're all tired of the censored, mind-numbing commercials and music that we're forced into listening to on FM. Both services have their strong and weak points, but satellite is still the best way to go if you're into your music.

LOL all this and only during a 4 day work week....imagine he was on all 5 days

;)

ed and winston -
both great posts - glad to see more positive input about SDARS and not so much arguing.
as Sirius is about a 15% portion of our portfolio, I have a vested interest in seeing the merger and the compamy not just survive, but to succeed and bring the share price
into double digits in a few years.
good luck -

Oprah has great ratings but it doesn't mean she's good. I listen to both shows and O&A definitely get the nod over Stern. Ferrall is better than both shows. I listen to them all though. Why limit myself?

My .02

PooPeepee -

My personal feeling is you shouldn't have to limit yourself. When it comes down to it, everyone here is a fan of satellite radio. Hopefully if the merger goes through the end result will be one stronger offering instead of a diluted version of the two that exist now.

If any of the brass at XM or Sirius read this (and they claim to), please don't dump Cinemagic, there isn't a channel like it on Sirius.

FUCK STERN
I GOT MY SIRIUS FOR THE ELVIS STATION AND THE GK SHOW

LEE KERSEY
MIAMI FL

Why is it all you Stern and O&A fans think it's all about you? There are other people listening to sat radio besides you rejects. So can we talk about something that doesn't relate to those two shows?

Here's a bit of experience for this discussion, keeping in mind that I can't stand O&A (or Stern for that matter):

The reason they stay on is simple. I'm sure you guys remember the 'incedent' with O&A a few months ago, right? With over 2000 representatives working that day, our call queue went over 500 waiting, and we were taking calls back to back all day long. All that for suspending them for 30 days.

Oh, and did I forget to mention those were ALL calls saying:
"I can't believe you suspended them (for seriously insulting a government official, otherwise known in most places as low-level treason), I want my service terminated (average 2-3 radios per subscriber who called in)!"

That means with 1950 (based on breaks, lunches, training, and time working after calls) calls going at once, average about seven minutes per call, and with our being open 18 hours that day, we got around 300k calls to disconnect that day, encompassing about 750k radios, or $7M for just ONE LOST MONTH (2.5 radio average is $23.46/month).

Of course, that figure is based on averages and statistics from IN HERE. Actual results weren't exacly that (since we managed to get some to stick around). Just imagine the actual implication of taking O&A off permanently.

So... Why are they still here again? Now you know.

If and when the XM/Sirius merger goes through, there is no way that Mel K would want to rid the service of O&A. Sure Stern may be beating them in ratings, but O&A still hold a significant amount of listeners on satellite radio. It would be a foolish business decision to get rid of one of the most listened stations on satellite. Their numbers may not be to the extent of Stern, but they're still good if not great for Satellite, and considering this is a public company, many losses would be had if one of their top stations no longer existed.

Love Always,

Board Room Jimmy

I don't know if I am alone here, but I am a long time Stern fan... I bought Sirius about a year ago now and couldn't live without it. HOWEVER, I am really hoping the merger happens so I can check out O&A's show every once in a while, maybe while Howard's in commercials. I think the mutual bashing would be great first of all, along with the competition of working for the same medium and the fan crossover call ins. It would also just be great to have more (funny) talk radio content added to what I'm already getting for my money. Even if I listen to O&A for ten minutes a week it would make me feel like I am getting more bang for my 13 bucks. I don't buy into the whole hating O&A just because I am a Stern fanatic, sorry, it's just too stupid. Neither show is paying my bills! MERGE MERGE MERGE!

when are we due more numbers?

wow from tha raitings the only peolpe that listen to O@A are them selfs what a panzy bitch show with a bunch of bitch losser listeners. all i got to say for u ass muncher that listen to the O@A show is ................HAY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!! BITCHES

wow from tha raitings the only peolpe that listen to O@A are them selfs what a panzy bitch show with a bunch of bitch losser listeners. all i got to say for u ass muncher that listen to the O@A show is ................HAY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!! BITCHES