Interoperable radios, devices that can receive both satellite radio services, isn't a new point of deliberation in the satrad-circles. During the summer of last year, Michael Hartleib suggested to the FCC that these interoperable (or "dual mode") radios are already available on the market. His suspicions were that the additional functionality of interoperable operation could be turned on via an over-the-air firmware update. These uncertainties have never been confirmed by either Sirius or XM.
But interoperability, or lack thereof, was one of the many factors that the DOJ cited as part of not choosing to block the merger.
The DOJ said "there has never been significant competition" between the companies for customers who already subscribed to one of the services. While Sirius and XM "made some efforts" to develop an interoperable radio, it said that "no such inter-operable radio is on the market and that such a radio likely would not be introduced in the near term."
"The parties did in fact develop an inter-operable radio and my understanding is they have one," Thomas O. Barnett, assistant attorney general for antitrust at the Justice Department, told the AP. "But there's a difference between developing something and market acceptance of something."
"We've developed it, we've lived up to our license. There's not a question," Mel Karmazin told a House subcommittee. Karmazin
The companies argue that there is nothing in the 1997 FCC license that says such a radio has to be subsidized and brought to market.
"The reason we will not subsidize it today (is) because it's possible that Sirius would subsidize an inter-operable radio which would result in XM getting a subscription," Karmazin told Rep. Ed Markey, R-Mass., chairman of the House Subcommittee on Telecommunications and Internet. "It doesn't make any sense for us to subsidize a radio where we don't get a subscription."
Whether or not interoperable radios are already on the market, as Hartleib contests is the case, is difficult to truly prove for certain. And I'm not sure that it even matters at this point. The DOJ has ruled. And the agency cited the lack of interoperability as only a part of its investigation."We focused on what was actually happening in the marketplace and what was likely to happen in the marketplace going forward," said Barnett. So whether or not they can receive both services isn't material, it's whether they do.
The responsibility now lies at the steps of the Federal Communications Commission. And on November 2nd, the FCC sent extensive requests for documents to both Sirius and XM, including a request for them to "provide a description of all efforts to develop and commercialize inter-operable satellite radio receivers and any difficulties in such development and commercialization."
Perhaps we will find out the results of those requests when the Commission makes its decision... whenever that may be.
[AP]
Thanks Chris!
Interesting story....I'm interesting to see how the new radios will look but I would love it if I could just download a firmware update on my Helix and get Sirius instead of buying a new radio. I hope this becomes an option in the future.
My dream as a Satellite customer is to be able to get both services on one device. Please make this happen!!
I just hope the radio isn't a $300 brick, but a small more affordable inn like device.
The one that I've seen is a model similar to the XM Commander unit.
As many have already said, they were only required to design an interoperable radio. There is no way they could have been forced to actually manufacture and try to sell something that there was no real market for (it would have been very expensive, larger, and more prone to failures).
If they are allowed to merge, there will finally be a good reason to bring interoperable radios to market: because people will want to buy them to take advantage of their mixed service al-la-carte offerings. And since their companies will be one and the same, their engineers will finally be able to share their design information at the levels required to design an efficient, smaller, and more reliable interoperable radio.
Remember: these are subscription services so the radios had to be designed to keep people without subscriptions from getting the service for free; sharing of design information between the two companies would have been very difficult.
Be very careful when you elevate form over substance. The FCC is an "independent" body and really doesn't account for its actions. If they sense that these companies are playing games with their legal obligations, they have a very easy solution which is to require that, as a condition to allowing the merger, the newly merged company ensure that "all existing subscribers be able to receive the complete programming from both services at no cost to the subscriber." This has the effect of requiring the newly merged company to go back to all existing subscribers and either replace or upgrade the technology. Think about the implications. All the vehicles and PnP receivers could be affected.
The arguements espoused regarding "they were only required to design an interoperable radio. There is no way they could have been forced to actually manufacture and try to sell something that there was no real market for" is akin the the "Separate but equal" arguments.
I've learned that it's never wise to play too cute with regulations and directives.
So XM and Sirius break their federal mandate to produce a dual radiio and because of that they get to merge? Wow. Where do I sign up for a B-S decision like that? And Sam, do you really think that the FCC only required XM and Sirius to "design" a dual radio, rather than introduce one into the market so that consumers could actually buy it? That makes no sense at all. The alleged fact that Mel might have one on his desk, which of course noone has ever seen in person, is irrelevant. Whether the radio is too bulky or expensive should've been up to consumers, not XM and Sirius. Besides, maybe if they had complied with the FCC's rule, someone would've had the incentive to come up with a radio that was more affordable and convenient. XM and Sirius: break the rules, win a prize!
Think of a dual mode receiver like it is the AM-FM radio in your car. One works on Amplitude Modulation (AM) and the other works of Frequency Modulation (FM). While they are two different concepts it wasn't that difficult to design and manufacture. That was 40 years ago. With all the new technology I am convinced that it's already bullt into the new receivers. It only has to be turned on via a firmware download. But as the article points out, why should Sirius underwrite the let's say $200 cost of the receiver so XM can get the subscription and vice versus? It's always about money and there sits the dilemma. This is just a bandaid as sooner or later one of the satellite systems will be anbandoned once most people have switched over to the predominant system. There will be a big cost savings to new merged company. Money again! The merger has to go through so they can reap the economics of scale. That is what is being hammered to the FCC. It simply costs too much darn money to maintain two systems when one will suffice. Afterall, you only need one GPS system so why have two? Divided they fall and united they stand!
Yep - I bet the newer Inno and Stiletto can do it with firmware. Gut feeling.
By the way, FCC, I'm missing baseball. Get your sh*t together.
If the current radios can carry 130 stations, they can carry 260 and probably a lot more. That is a reason that Sirius-XM don't want to give up any bandwidth. Their satellites (at least Sirius's) are "probably" set up to transmit those signals in both formats at the same time. Just add more stations to the current receivers (firmware). XM station #1 would become #131 or whatever high end number on Sirius. Shucks, TV cables can carry 999 channels, high speed internet, phone service and much more. Those satellites were designed to do a lot more than what we were originally told, but they have to keep the bandwidth to maintain that capability.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh. I can't stand it anymore. Please someone make them stop! The cancer of the interoperable receiver that started in the forums has now grown to the main blog page. I fully expect it to be the lead story on the network TV nightly news soon. It wouldn't surprise me when the Pope visits Washington to find his homily devoted to interoperable receivers.
I understand that purgatory is getting very full these days. That's because St. Peter & the devil are spending all of their time talking about interoperable receivers and are neglecting their regular jobs admitting souls to heaven & h*ll.
As a consumer it pisses me off that I need to fork out another 2 to $300 for a radio that gets all of the channels, and the programming will most likely be worse with shallow play lists? This doesn't sound like a great deal, for the money I could just get an I pod and have way more music selection. Sports fans might rejoice they make the sports channels premium channels.
Trust me the consumer will get screwed in this deal. Internet radio will own them in the future.
Sirius, XM receivers may play both sides
http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/08/sirius-xm-receivers-may-play-both-sides/
Interoperable Radios: Are they already out there?
http://www.orbitcast.com/archives/interoperable-radios-are-they-already-out-there.html
SIRIUS & XM Satellite Radio Interoperability
http://www.orbitcast.com/archives/sirius-xm-satellite-radio-interoperability.html
Satellite Receivers to Play Both Sirius and XM After Firmware Upgrade?
http://www.gearlog.com/2007/07/satellite_radio_receivers_to_p.php
Some useful information....................
No the Radio is not larger or lets say does not have to be.
As far as sharing info with each other they had to in order to make the ic's
If you read the proxy you will see that they were talking merger years ago about the same time Dish thought they would get Direct. That is when Dish started making a Dish / Direct receiver. No big deal that took years and was so hard to do they just started making them.
Just like Sirius and XM they can use the same antenna but after that everything is different.
Gone are the days of lots of parts on a board now millions of parts on a chip and more on the chip does not mean higher cost to make them.
I think when all is said and done sombody or somebodies will see Jail time.
>>>> "The reason we will not subsidize it today (is) because it's possible that Sirius would subsidize an inter-operable radio which would result in XM getting a subscription,"
This remark wins the Specious Claim of the Year award. Totally absurd.
If they had any intent to market such a receiver, they could have simply agreed that any receiver which was sold and activated as XM only would be subsidized by XM only; the same for Sirius. Problem solved.
The reality is that Mel wanted a monopoly. He said so. So, in April '05 he said he wanted a monopoly, 3 years later he has it, and this bogus claim about interoperability was simply a tactic he employed in achieving that goal. And I'm not sure how stupid someone has to be not to see this.
He also claims the receiver costs $700, which is pretty unbelievable, but he said it. If it does, we'll never see it, because there is no way in hell such a receiver can ever turn a profit -- merger or no.
I have a Starmate Replay Model: ST2, and I happen to KNOW one of the engineers (I live in PA pretty close to the NJ Sirius office). I have been following this merger thing pretty closely. I actually am one of the people who prefer the stations on Sirius over XM (my husband has XM in his car)... JamOn for example... the classic WNEW jocks on our classic rock stations... I like that. However, my husband likes Hockey on XM. So, we've been maintaining both services. So, going back, I asked this engineer who designed the starmate replay, and he said it was possible for it to do both XM and Sirius.
So, take that for what you will, but I'm hoping the FCC will say ok, the merger will go through, and I will get all the sports I want on my Sirius radio along with all the music i prefer. (still trying to figure out how that works with the pricing schemes, though) And hopefully with just that firmware update.
If you go back to before Sirius and XM started service Sirius sued XM and in the settlement it said XM had to make the radio. That is what Sirius wanted and that is why it is in the settlement Sirius got.
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The reason we will not subsidize it today (is) because it's possible that Sirius would subsidize an inter-operable radio which would result in XM getting a subscription,"
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As you can see that is just not true because XM would do the same thing and it would be Sirius that would benefit from the radio because Sirius has so much more market share were people have a choice.
What we are going to see is people like Hartleib that have said the radio was fact will be proven correct.
Did he say this?
He also claims the receiver costs $700, which is pretty unbelievable, but he said it. If it does, we'll never see it, because there is no way in hell such a receiver can ever turn a profit -- merger or no.
Just look at at the price of the HD TV conmverters they sell for $50 or less and i think ( Dish Echostar) will be selling one for $40. That shows the cost of electronics today when most is on chips. It sure looks like they have been fooling or trying to fool ALMOST everybody.
"If they had any intent to market such a receiver, they could have simply agreed that any receiver which was sold and activated as XM only would be subsidized by XM only; the same for Sirius. Problem solved."
Another preposterous presumption on your part. "COULD HAVE agreed?" That's Stackspeak for "I know what happened."
In any case, the technological challenge to building a dual service radio isn't.
Cost savings is both use the same chips and get a better price because of volume.
The DOJ screwed up this is complete BS.
"The parties did in fact develop an inter-operable radio and my understanding is they have one," Thomas O. Barnett, assistant attorney general for antitrust at the Justice Department, told the AP."
The DOJ screwed up, the FCC better get it right and STOP this Sirius/xm "merger" MONOPOLY.
PLEASE: No More "ANONYMOUS COWARD" postings. We ALL know you are from the NAB or the O&A show..... The only two organizations that do not agree with the merger.
Hey smirking chimp,
Smart consumers, even those who are customers of Sirius and/or xm also DO NOT agree with this "merge" MONOPOLY and want to FCC to STOP IT.
I just hope common sense prevails at the FCC.
>>> Another preposterous presumption on your part. "COULD HAVE agreed?" That's Stackspeak for "I know what happened."
max
If you're going to criticize me the least you could do is make a point (and it would help if your sentences made sense).
I wonder how many know that Mr. Hartleib was in Court this past Monday defending our rights? This is the second time he has made the trip from CA. to NY.
This so called class action lawsuit gives the shareholders nothing at all and in fact takes away rights we have now.
We need to thank him for looking out for our rights. This time it was Mr. Hartleib and his Attorney against 6 Attorneys that came from all over the country some from CA.
So much to tell as to what has been going on for us but for now all i can say is were it not for Mr. Hartleib we would have lost rights we still have.
If you live in NYC or nearby you may want to be in Court for the next Court date.
max
If you're going to criticize me the least you could do is make a point (and it would help if your sentences made sense).
Made perfect sense to me. You wrote: "If they had any intent to market such a receiver, they could have simply agreed that any receiver which was sold and activated as XM only would be subsidized by XM only; the same for Sirius. Problem solved."
And again, a preposterous presumption on your part. "Could have simply agreed" doesn't mean shit, unless someone is so totally focused on finding Mel Karmazin under his bed.
More conspiracy on the supposed Interopable radio already in the marketplace?
For those that really believe they are, I suggest you go read the forums about this -- the conspiracy over them has been disproven pretty soundly. Rather than posting as anonymous cowards here -- you can participate in the forums and state your reason why you believe it. Or you can read the (many) threads started by Hartleib and Heath about it -- which have all been disproven.
You should not go blindly into the night -- you need to open your eyes, learn and decide for yourself -- without believing in the words of a message board poster whom you don't even know.
When you read and learn ALL the facts, this conspiracy pretty much ends.