Fall '07 Arbitron Ratings for Satellite Radio: Howard Stern still #1 - Orbitcast

Fall '07 Arbitron Ratings for Satellite Radio: Howard Stern still #1

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Ratings show that Howard Stern still leadsYesterday, Arbitron released its Fall 2007 ratings for Sirius Satellite Radio and XM Satellite Radio. Below are some key takeaways from the ratings report, but check back later when I explain why Arbitron's ratings are all wrong (well, for satellite radio at least).

Overall, Arbitron reports that XM leads Sirius in listeners, 10.4 million versus 7 million respectively. Combined, there were approximately a half-million more satellite radio listeners in the Fall than in Spring 2007 when Arbitron last released its satellite radio ratings report.

Here's a breakdown of the Top 5 channels (in terms of "cume" - or the total number of unique listeners) from both Sirius and XM:

Sirius Arbitron RatingsSirius Ratings -
  1. Howard 100: 1,210,000
  2. Sirius Hits 1: 584,800
  3. Howard 101: 501,000
  4. Sirius New Country: 468,300
  5. Sirius Big 80s: 417,900
  6. Sirius Octane: 383,700
  7. Classic Vinyl: 347,100
  8. Classic Rewind: 335,500
  9. The Pulse: 330,700
  10. Totally 70s: 309,400



XM Arbitron RatingsXM Ratings -
  1. Top 20 on 20: 1049200
  2. Flight 26: 741600
  3. 80s on 8: 698300
  4. 70s on 7: 667400
  5. 60s on 6: 581300
  6. Highway 16: 579500
  7. Top Tracks: 534900
  8. The Blend: 532400
  9. The Heart: 493400
  10. Fox News: 464800

For those that want to compare how the "shock jocks" line up, Opie & Anthony's The Virus channel had a cume of 171,300. For a comparison of AQH (Average Quarter-Hour), which is the average number of people listening for at least five minutes during a 15-minute period, here's how the three channels compared:

  • Howard 100: 97,600 AQH
  • Howard 101: 33,200 AQH
  • The Virus: 18,500 AQH
So there's the numbers, and numbers don't lie... or do they?

Check back soon when I explain, in detail, why Arbitron's numbers - for satellite radio ratings at least - are all wrong.

[Arbitron Fall 2007 Satellite Radio Ratings (PDF)]

91 Comments

even with wrong #'s, ACROSS THE BOARD, "Howard 100: 97,600 AQH" IS GOOD BECAUSE OF ALL DAY REPLAYS.

how is xm still ahead of sirius?

well...at least those won't turn into a 100 comment post over the weekend

Still seems like Sirius is a 1 trick pony.

Sirius has more overall good stations. Flat out, there can't be more people listening to XM overall, if Sirius has 2m more subs... just more depth to SIRI.

Can't wait to see how these numbers are wrong. I'm a Howard fan and glad he's #1 even if it's a flawed system. But it would be nice if they could get a real ratings system.

These thread will be a mess in about 60 min.

I hope Mel and Co. Don't use these numbers to determine what channels stay and which channels go. I'm sure they realize that if you have Sirius for the NFL, you have no choice but to listen to a Sirius station. (Vice versa with Xm and MLB.)

@ Tom C.:

If you read the PDF, you'll see breakdowns for different times of the day, including 6am-10am (Eastern).

CUME / AQH
Howard 100: 981,200 / 254,500
The Virus: 122,500 / 35,600

I'd be fairly happy if these use these top 10 as the basis for the Sirius Select option. Now we just have to wait another year for that to be available!

Here's one of the reasons why the numbers could be flawed. Right in the report, this disclaimer (I snipped part of it)....

ESTIMATES PUBLISHED IN THIS REPORT ARE BASED UPON DATA
RETURNED FROM ALL ARBITRON DIARY SERVICE SURVEY AREAS.
ADDITIONALLY, USERS OF THIS REPORT SHOULD NOT
ASSUME THAT ALL DIARYKEEPERS INCLUDED IN THIS REPORT WHO
HAVE REPORTED SATELLITE RADIO LISTENING ARE SATELLITE RADIO
SUBSCRIBERS OR RESIDE IN THE HOUSEHOLD OF A SATELLITE RADIO
SUBSCRIBER.

Also, where do most people listen to satellite radio? Safe to assume it's in a vehicle, correct? Since this was based on diaries, how many of you tried keeping a diary while trying to drive your vehicle?

But Arbitron still works on terrestrial radio right? If so O&A are teh SUCK!!! I see no reason the SUCKFEST wouldn’t extend beyond earth into space. Does your next article have something to do with O&A having to share their channel with Ron & Fez and Howard doesn’t. I hope not, it’s not Howard’s fault his mastery of satellite has afforded him a whole other channel to put his flunkies on. O&A should be happy with those numbers they’ll do well when they are finally forced on to YouTube.

Looks like Lucy is kicking Ethel's ass even more than the last time the Arbitron rating came out. It's almost 2 to 1!

I'll say it again--Steve Kingston and his FM bag of tricks is not working. Eyhel went from being the best alt channel on the planet, and the #1 alt channel on XM to a horrific FM clone, and now it is the #2 alt channel on XM. Even Fred is ctaching up to Ethel.

It's one thing to be an FM hack like Steve Kingston, but to be so intransigent and wedded to the FM way DESPITE THE NUMBERS is truly jaw dropping.

Ugh. How in the world do you calculate listenership for those XM holiday channels carried on multiple channel positions? Can't just add them up straight across; presumably a portion of the audience has listened (and diaried) on both.

Can't believe ARB didn't pre-consolidate simulcast channel data for satrad the way they do for terrestrial intra-market simulcasts...

Another big problem with it is this :

If you were in New York and wrote down Opie and Anthony, K Rock got the credit. If it's not clear in the diary what the source is, the terrestrial station got the credit.

I still think Howard has more listeners....he ought to for what's being paid, but the O & A numbers are skewed in the biggest market because of the methodology. Same for the public radio shows that are on satellite and terrestrial.

If you put Howard aside there is one trend that I find Odd. Whay are the Hits channels on both platforms that biggest music channels? I have been a sat Rad owner for 4 years now (had both prefer the music on XM). The reason I got the radio was to listen to stuff other than what was being played on the terrestrial stations - current pop music. I understand that popular music is popular music but I would have thought that it would be less popoular on satellite radio.

Post merger if the Sirius Hits channel and the XM 20 on 20 channel are combined the people who are listening to that one channel will be more than are listening to Howard. That is not what I expected from Satellite Radio.

In before the Stern vs O&A bashfest.....oh wait......

In before the lock!

Ryan, you really need to start locking threads when the shock jock wars go too far (or at least start banning/editing/deleting posts). Yet another reason I don't listen to either show.

There's FAR more to satellite radio than them, and certainly better.

Fanboys of both shows can spin info all day long. Fact is nobody asked me or anyone i know what they listen too. Were you asked? DIdnt think so.

Thanks for playing.

Obviously not. The biggest thing on Satellite Radio is Stern. Stern is satellite radio.

I think as far as the ratings go, they are probably fairly correct as far as ranking popularity. What I mean is, the highest rated channels are most very likely the ACTUAL most listened to channels, however, I don't believe the AQH and cume numbers are right at all, for either side. Then you have the sticky situation of shows that appear on both sat and terrestrial. If I'm listening to the Reds game, but I don't specify that it's on XM, I'm guessing WLW in Cincinnati gets the ratings. If I'm listening to ESPN Radio, or Fox Sports, I'm guessing it's the same way. Things like this skew the total ratings as a whole.

Now, I await some kool-aid drinking Howard fan to accuse me of being a "pest" or "XM fanboy" when I didn't mention any shockjock crap and I dual sub anyway.

In fact they are thinking of renaming satellite radio Howard Stern to end the confusion after the merger.

Interesting.....the Bridge had better numbers last book than E Street this time. Like I said above, not sure how accurate these are, but it's interesting for fans of the Bridge.

You know what? After looking over my old files that I saved from last time, these numbers are fairly close to what they were before, which makes me believe they are more accurate than I was thinking. Sort of ignore that first post.

Oh, and Ryan, I agree with the post above that says you should moderate some of these comments when the shock jock wars start. This place is starting to look like Blabbermouth.net, and nobody wants that shit.

For "Matt" - XM has 2 Mil more subs than Sirius.

And After Howard, XM Kicks Sirius' butt in the ratings - the #2 Sirius station barely edges out the #4 XM station.

I've got both, but I find XM is better for talk and Sirius has the better music....

Nobody said to moderate comments gilpdawg, you censorship douche. If you don't want to read a comment don't read it. People like you make me sick.

The is that Bubba beats out O and A in their respected time slots. Go Bubba!!

if you notice, most of the bashing comes from Stern fans who seem to be so obsessed about O&A that they will find any reason to post something about them, even in threads not related to either O&A or Howard. i don't know if they feel the need to do this to prove to convince themselves that Howards show is good or what.... i honestly have never heard his show other than what they would put on E! back in the day.

i listen to O&A and don't really give two shits about Howards show, its not like i win a prize or anything if i was to bash Howard. Howard fans who post on here love to say how obsessed O&A are with howard, but they themselves are just as obsessed with O&A (if not more). i am not gonna try to "spin" ratings either way. I really don't care. As long as I can be entertained at work, it doesn't matter to me how many people listen to Howard. Does Howard give away prizes for bashing O&A on Orbitcast?

These ratings are a crock of crap. With AM/FM radio it's so much more accurate because there are a hand full of stations and that's all you choose.

How are a select group of people really expected to provide accurate data? There is such a small group that has to represent the 170+ channels each service offers.

OK, fine, the ratings say something...but it really is not accurate or valid in any sense of any argument.

It shouldn't surprise anyone that the hit channels are one of the tops on both Sirius and XM. The fact is most people don't want to hear deep tracks on an album. They perfer only the hits. Personally I like deeper tracks and XM and Sirius don't go deep enough. On both you here the same songs over and over again. That is why as far as what I want in music XM and Sirius are pretty bad. For political talk and sports they both are great. The problem with just one show being so popular is once that show is gone there will be a serious decline in subs. Sirius has problems ahead if Stern is what is keeping them afloat.

What's funny is Stern fans will call Opie & Anthony fans "XM fanboys" and claim XM sucks when in reality they probably never bothered to actually listen to XM and only say that because Stern is not on there. Which is mindlessness to say the least. If Stern was on XM there tune would change to Sirius sucks regardless of the programming. All of a sudden they would be claiming XM is the best. It's amazing what one dumb shock jock can do. It can be said vice versa as well.

Oh really NorCalMurph, you fucking douche. Nobody said anything like that? Read the whole thread again fucktard. There's a difference between censorship and getting rid of trolls on a PRIVATE web site. That's right. This is Ryan's site. He just lets you play here. He can do whatever he wants. I happen to believe that stupid pointless flamewars about washed up shock jocks drag us all down. I'm an O & A fan and I'm getting sick of the dumb shit. Can't we have an intelligent conversation about something without all the Hoo Hoo 0.0 shit?

Some of you may remember that I posted some adjusted ratings to look at those channels that do a better job of holding their audiences.

The formula I used was based on computing a TSL (504*AQH/Cume), multiplying it by the AQH, and then twiddling based on the relative AQHs of the platforms (basically dividing by the service's AQH and then multiplying by the geometric mean of the services' AQH... this is done to provide some level of control for XM's larger listener base).

I tend to interpret these as:

>15: a star of the service
5-15: could use some work

So here are Sirius' star channels by this metric (Spring scores in parens):

Howard 100: 442.97 (436.86)
Howard 101: 123.77 (107.46)
Octane: 41.88 (49.58)
New Country: 38.07 (52.25)
Christmas Country: 35.89 (new; Roadhouse had 23.87)
Classic Vinyl: 24.53 (19.02)
Hits 1: 23.42 (27.45)
NASCAR Radio: 23.35 (23.84)
Totally 70s: 23.22 (14.06)
Sirius Gold: 22.74 (28.33)
The Pulse: 21.73 (28.90)
Sirius Holiday: 21.68 (new; Starlite had 8.00)
Hair Nation: 21.62 (24.41)
Classic Rewind: 21.42 (16.54)
Big 80s: 21.38 (19.24)
Coffee House: 21.04 (14.18)
Movin EZ: 20.73 (13.9)
Spirit: 19.25 (13.64)
NFL Radio: 19.23 (9.44)
Prime Country: 16.45 (17.06)

And on the flipside, those channels that might be in danger if I were Scott Greenstein (channels with less than 100 AQH are implicitly here but not listed):

WRN: .06 (.08)
NY Traffic: .07 (.10)
Bande a Part: .10 (.32)
LA Traffic .12 (zero AQH Spring)
CBC Radio One: .14 (.09)
Sports 5: .15 (NBA Radio had .41)
E!: .15 (zero AQH)
Sports 4: .22 (.08)
CNN Espanol: .33 (zero AQH Spring)
Sports 3: .39 (.13)
Radio Korea: .47 (.27)
Sports 1: .48 (zero AQH Spring)
Boombox: .55 (1.67)
Cosmo: .59 (1.72)
Catholic Channel: .62 (.08)
Lime: .63 (.62)
Rock Velours: .63 (zero AQH Spring)
CNN Headline: .64 (.30)
Bloomberg: .66 (.48)
Sports 2: .66 (.46)
ESPNEWS: .69 (.43)
NPR Talk: .76 (.59)
Hardcore Sports: .79 (zero AQH Spring)
Court TV: .85 (1.39)
Iceberg: .87 (.08)
BBC Radio 1: 1.05 (1.44)
Laugh Break: 1.06 (.74)
BBC World News: 1.09 (.47)
Sirius Stars: 1.24 (1.02)
Road Dog: 1.24 (.59)
Back Spin: 1.28 (2.10)
CBC Radio 3: 1.41 (zero AQH Spring)
Sports Central: 1.42 (Sports Action had 1.00)
Underground Garage: 1.55 (.81)
Reggae: 1.60 (2.19)
NPR Now: 1.61 (.77)
FamilyNet Radio: 1.70 (Christian Talk was 2.01)
Universo Latino: 1.82 (4.07)
Radio Disney: 1.85 (2.71)
Area 33: 1.92 (3.73)
Foxxhole: 2.03 (1.26)
Disorder: 2.22 (1.48)
Rumbon: 2.25 (5.22)
Martha Stewart: 2.33 (2.31)
Playboy: 2.51 (2.19)
Kids Stuff: 2.63 (2.09)
Fox News Talk: 2.64 (1.23)
The Strobe: 2.93 (2.94)
The Beat: 2.95 (5.29)
Hip Hop Nation: 3.00 (6.11)
Chill: 3.05 (2.40)
EWTN: 3.06 (1.50)
CNBC: 3.20 (4.04)
Broadway's Best: 3.51 (2.75)
CNN: 3.70 (3.00)
Punk: 3.89 (3.99)
Faction: 4.16 (2.80)
OutQ: 4.21 (3.57)
Radio Classics: 4.53 (4.02)
Soul Town: 4.71 (3.35)
Symphony Hall: 4.87 (6.19)
Raw Dog: 4.87 (5.07)
Left of Center: 4.95 (5.15)

Stern's channels improved (though differences in vacation schedules may account for this). Mainstream channels targetting listeners aged 31-56 accounted for most of the improvements on the music channels (70s, 80s, Vinyl, & Rewind... age ranges based on someone who was 12 in 1989 or 18 in '70). In general, religious radio improved scores. Both of these constitute moves towards previously observed XM phenomena; I suspect both of these are also correlated with OEM listenership and so these effects should probably become more pronounced as time goes by. NFL Radio being unable to beat NASCAR even during the Fall is perhaps telling. A general increase in scores for News and News/Talk channels is also observable; perhaps this is correlated with election buildup. Additionally, the Canadian channels generally improved from Spring, even the ones that aren't receivable by older chipsets.

I'll play E-Lo and do the XM analysis at a future point...

i remember last time these were released,the pests blamed the suspension for the low number..

whats the spin this time around..?

"whats the spin this time around..?"

They fucking suck. ok?

accurate

its sooo funny that Howie fans spend so much time trying to hype up their beloved radio god and to bash a show that sucks so bad. why do you have to try so hard to convince people if they suck that bad?

"That's right. This is Ryan's site. He just lets you play here. He can do whatever he wants."

gilpdawg you are the kid who would take his toys and go home because the other kids arn't playing the way you want. Go get a hug from your momma.

Looking at these numbers, it seems that the majority of people who subscribe to Sirius do so to listen to Howard. What's going to happen when he leaves? I for one think Howard should see this and bring in an apprentiece, someone to take over his show when he wants to retire or Sirius will potentially run the risk of lossing lots of subs. to free radio.

"why do you have to try so hard to convince people if they suck that bad? "
Posted by: pointless | April 26, 2008 10:39 AM

We ask ourselves the same question; the consensus so far is that O&A fans are extremely retarded.

>> Looking at these numbers, it seems that the majority of people who subscribe to Sirius do so to listen to Howard. What's going to happen when he leaves?

It is a great question, particularly, when one considers that Mel is already trying to negotiate down Stern's price tag for a second term.

I haven't looked it up, but don't these figures also reflect pretty much zero growth in Stern's audience since the last ratings were published?

I don't know if they're right or wrong, but the suggestion is strong that SIRI is predominantly Stern, while XM offers a broader array of popular content.

A mixed bag for Stern (Ch. 100) compared to the Spring:

AQH
Spring 96700, Fall 97600

Cume
Spring 1225100, Fall 1210000

AQH is up, Cume is down

ThuderRoad, couldn't that be explained easy enough if the Cume fell because some of the more casual listeners have stopped listening? Casual listeners are probably not going to tune in as long, while the hardcore "Zombies" are listening to the channel all day.

So the hardcore fans are listening longer, but maybe some of the more casual audience tuned out in the fall.

I typed my name in there not sure why it showed as AC, but this was NorCalMurph.

"That's right. This is Ryan's site. He just lets you play here. He can do whatever he wants."

gilpdawg you are the kid who would take his toys and go home because the other kids arn't playing the way you want. Go get a hug from your momma.

I may be a coward but I am not Anonymous!

In my case, I tend to listen to Hits music stations when there is "family" in the car, but not always.

I understand the argument about not wanting to hear what you can on FM, but the reality is it is different. NO COMMERCIALS. And way more hits variety than FM hit stations.

Not only that, but with satrad, you get tired of a genre, you can flip to another one easily.

P.S. XM 20 on 20 is my favorite hits station followed by Hits 1, UPOP, and then The Pulse.

i hear O&A were suspended during this report...

oh wait that was the last excuse...


i hear stern was on vacation and takes every friday off.....oh wait that would mean he beats them doing a 4 day a week show with vacations...


holy spank fest batman, o&a have now again been proven not to even be in his league...back to competing against bubba, ron and fez and the greaseman boys!!!

"I haven't looked it up, but don't these figures also reflect pretty much zero growth in Stern's audience since the last ratings were published?"

IF YOU HAVEN'T LOOK ANYTHING UP, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU MAKING THAT STATEMENT FOR!

JESUS...

P.S.- I HAVENT LOOKED ANY THING UP BUT SIRIUS HAS MUCH DEEPER CUTS THAN XM, JUST TAKE MY WORD FOR IT, I DON'T HAVE ANY PROOF!

Uhh, Tom C, you don't have to look anything up. It was posted in this thread. His cume dropped 15,100. Which equates to about 1% of his audience.

On the other hand, it looks like the Virus has been innoculated. The 0.0 failboat lost 44,700 listeners, or three times as much as Stern, which was 20% of their audience! Haha, guess the pests got a job, or died of a heart attack in their mothers basement. Their AQH dropped quite a bit as well.

So much for the 0.0 Failboat taking over Satrad and being the best channel on XM. Obviously E-Lo was just blowing smoke up their asses, when he wasn't sucking Greg's sack. I think its obvious this proves that getting dumped off every FM station and now losing 20% of your great satellite fanbase, your heading to PODCAST WILLIE!

Behold, even MORE cold, hard numbers proving Stern's massive dominance over the boring assclowns known as "Opie & Anthony".

Of course, as they do with Google trends, etc., their pudgy, virginal fanboys will somehow cite this as further evidence that Howard is "irrelevant". After all, why should they let silly "facts" ruin their agenda?

..L..O..L..

>>> IF YOU HAVEN'T LOOK ANYTHING UP, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU MAKING THAT STATEMENT FOR!

I was simply making the point that I was operating from memory, and could be wrong, and it wasn't worth taking the time to look it up. As it turned out, I was right, so it didn't matter.

Sorry to have confused you.

I haven’t looked it up but how many stations have dropped O&A since their return to testicle radio? I know two of them were in the top 10 markets WYSP (#7) and WJFK (#9) (someone must have heard them there). How does a virus spread with a dwindling number of hosts? It’s only a matter of time before the contagion is contained to YouTube, Paltalk and Orbitcast.

This thread is a classic example of what happens when a report is released and then over analysed by massive amounts of people who have little to no understanding of what or how to read the numbers. They're so blinded by the desire to bash the other service or other show -- that they only make themselves to look like fools in the end... exaggerating every comment.

I have some observations from this latest book -- and I was able to Trend some of the info over to Spring numbers as well.

* First and foremost, it is very important to understand that what you are looking at here are RAW numbers. They are unweighted to account for demographic sampling. And the actual sample size is relatively small -- for nationwide calculations. A single diary change can signficantly impact the majority of all of the channels listed.

* Secondly, it must be also pointed out that the diary method rely's on "listener recall". As opposed to the "PPM" -- which is Arbitron's new method of collecting data that is now being implemented. Neither XM nor Sirius are encoding for the PPM -- so PPM figures were not included in this measurement. In fact, this means that listening data for Houston & Philadelphia are not even included in this book! I'll add that the PPM method has altered some of the impact of ratings... for example, it has found that TSL (time spent listening) in PPM markets is down significantly -- however, CUME is up quite a bit. This suggests that listeners tend to listen to one station for less time -- but that more people are checking out more stations. This has helped some formats -- particularily the Classic Rock and Rock formats -- to end up with higher ratings via PPM.

With these two things in mind -- you have to be careful just how much creedence you're putting in to these numbers.

Here's some observations:

Stern obviously still dominates. However, keep in mind that Ryan's article above compared Stern's channel to The Virus. Much of the bashing above is based the comparison of the two channels -- however, O&A are not on The Virius 24/7 like Stern. So that bashing is very much misplaced. O&A's CUME was NOT 18,500... and for that matter, Stern's was NOT 96,700.

This time around, Arbitron did a Daypart breakdown -- and it paints a bit different picture. For Stern, his AQH was 254,500 on H100 and 57,600 on H101 (West Coast feed). So his total AQH was actually 312,100 for the morning show. His CUME was 981,200 and 285,400, respectively -- totaling 1,266,600.

For O&A, their AQH were 35,600 and their CUME was 122,500. Nothing to spin their -- but I do agree with one comment above... if the Diary holder put down "O&A" without noting that it was on XM -- then the credit was automatically credited to the terrestrial radio station in that market. And that happens more often than you think... I've done diary reviews in Maryland. You'd be surprised at how often the diary keeper put down the name of the host -- rather than the station. This is one legitimate fact that must be considered in O&A's numbers.

Also I crunched the AQH Share for both XM and Sirius in AM Drive -- and WOW. There's where you see the impact of Stern. H100 and H101 have a combined 43.0% share for AM Drive on Sirius. That means that 43% of all radio listening on Sirius between 6A-10A is listening to Stern. That's major. That's beyond major. And in some ways, that does make me wonder what the impact of Stern leaving Sirius would mean to the service -- like Stack and others bring up. This is not a bash -- but if you have a show that is THAT dominant... you can ill-afford to lose it.

For XM, O&A have a 4.9% share P12+ of the XM service. Obviously not as dominate as Stern, but it is still the top rated AM Drive program on XM. In fact, it leads the number 2 rated AM Drive program by 27% (the Blend did a 3.8 share). So it goes to show that you can trust the bashing on these boards by people who don't understand the numbers. O&A's numbers are more than good enough to keep them on the XM service. They too are dominating their time slot. Are they Stern numbers? Obviously no, but that is not relevant to their impact on XM.

Other things I noticed...

Comparing Fall to Spring, Stern's H100/H101 AQH's where up about 2.5%, but the CUME was down about 1%... which means his TSL was up. But this is the both channels combined -- and not just his AM Drive show. The previous report did not have a daypart breakdown, so it's not possible to trend the ratings on just his show. For XM, there's no reason to trend the numbers on The Virius since O&A are not exclusive to the channel.

Music channel observations:

* I ranked by AQH all of the music channels for XM and Sirius combined... XM has 9 of the top 10 ranked music channels, which just Sirius New Country coming in at #9. XM also has 14 of the top 20 music channels -- representing nearly 1/3 of all the music listening done on both services combined.

* While XM20 is still the top CUME getter in satellite radio -- it suffers the same fate as typical terrestrial radio -- and comes in at number 3 in total listening. That is because TSL on CHR radio stations historically is not that high... the higher the rotation on new music, the higher the fatigue. TSL is typically higher with Talk, Rock and Country... where there is more depth and lower rotation on songs.

* XM's top rated music channel is The Blend, followed by Flight 26 and XM20. For Sirius, New Country is first followed by Octane then Sirius Hits 1.


To the posters above questioning how XM still has higher numbers than Sirius -- that is because XM still has more subscribers than Sirius. Plus, the Arbitron method is not perfect. As I said above, the diary method rely's on "listener recall", as well as placement. If more XM subs get diaries than Sirius -- then they'll have higher overall numbers.

And finally to the guy saying that Sirius has "much deeper cuts" than XM... you made me laugh with that one. I don't need to "take your word for it". I've done my own research and know for a fact that you are wrong. Which reminds me, to the other guy saying that "people don't want to hear deep tracks", that is not necessarily correct. In fact, Deep Tracks came in at #26 out of all of XM's music channels... and #41 out of XM and Sirius combined (145+ music channels total); Sirius' The Vault came in at #72. Deeper track listening did alright, IMHO. In fact, with XM coming in with 14 out of 20 and 30 out of 50 of the top rated music channels between XM and Sirius combined... XM did okay with their channels being "deeper". Not bashing you, I just don't agree with that opinion. And that's an opinion that I spent the last 18 years developing, while working in this business.


Now with all that said above... I still don't like the sample size or the methodology used. Be leary of holding these numbers as written in stone.

-

have O&A commented on these numbers yet?curious to hear the spin

ryan please post that audio if they did instead of that morning zoo hack fake bit they did w/ bam

''they have to eat this nice shit-cake that just came out of the oven."

What ? Escape ( XM 78 ) didn't make the top 10 ? Gotta have that great head bangin' elevator music .

Additionally, the Canadian channels generally improved from Spring, even the ones that aren't receivable by older chipsets.
--------------------
Regarding the Canadian channel fiasco , from a couple years ago , I understand some older chipsets got the channels , while others didn't . ( For example , some Sportsters got the channels , while other Sportsters didn't . We never did get an explanation from Sirius on this .

Homer -- thanks for a very informative post.

Those of us who don't work with these numbers on a day in, day out basis just don't have much perspective or background on the real meaning of these data.

"ryan please post that audio if they did instead of that morning zoo hack fake bit they did w/ bam"

He'll get right on that after he posts that morning zoo hack fake bit Stern did with Artie "quitting".

Maybe O&A should fake more bits. Even with Artie’s “faked bits” Howard still crushes the shit out of them. I guess you could say his hack bits have hacked them to bits. Good thing for them Howard is off every Friday and takes every other month off. If little Dimmy walked off the O&A show for real it would barely make it into Chaunce Hayden’s fish wrapper much less a national news outlet. BTW, how does a virus spread on fewer stations? Hmmmmm. With all the stations dropping them since their return I guess re-upping a contract is a major accomplishment.

He'll get right on that after he posts that morning zoo hack fake bit Stern did with Artie "quitting".

Anyone who saw video of that knows that was absolutely, positively, NOT fake. Artie's not that good an actor. Ever seen "Beer League"?

But speaking of fake bits, when is another "Stern fan" going to "attack" the Morning Z0.0 on their "walk over"? Now THAT was a real hoot.

DOES NOT INCLUDE PPM MARKETS. That means Stern's base markets of NY and Philly aren't counted. Stern's even more #1 than it claims.

Real Numbers said,
>>>DOES NOT INCLUDE PPM MARKETS. That means Stern's base markets of NY and Philly aren't counted. Stern's even more #1 than it claims.


This is only partially true. The only PPM markets are NYC, Philly and Houston... however, NYC is still doing both diaries and PPM. Arbitron is working a transition phase from diaries to PPM for one year in each market that switches over to PPM -- to ensure nothing drastic is wrong with the data. Philly and Houston are PPM only, however NYC is not.

Arbitron announced that they will continue to also use diaries in NYC through the Spring 2008 book, which is currently underway. That means the Fall 2007 satellite ratings here DOES include NYC -- as will the Spring 2008 satellite report that will come out later this summer. In fact, the very last day for diary measurement in NYC is June 25, 2008.

Click to read PPM info for NYC


-

I'm curious, does these numbers imply that Stern has leveled off? From the standpoint of Sirius (or the combined company), it would seem to me that they need continued growth from him since profitability hasn't been reached yet.

>>> does these numbers imply that Stern has leveled off?

It would certainly seem that way to this neophyte.

>>> From the standpoint of Sirius (or the combined company), it would seem to me that they need continued growth from him since profitability hasn't been reached yet.

Exactly. Not only that, they haven't begun to recover the multi-billion dollar loss that resulted in the time since they hired him -- a loss that would have been much, much smaller without Stern.

It is a real uphill battle at this point for them to recover their investment in Stern before the 5 years of his contract is up.

1.2 million subs x $13 = $15.6 million per month x 12 = $187.2 million a year. Not only does Howard pay for himself ($100 million per year) he produces $87.2 million in profit each year . In 5 years Sirius stands to earn &436 million AFTER they recouped the half billion-dollar investment. Howard doesn’t need any more subs to pay his way with a HEFTY PROFIT TO BOOT!

"He'll get right on that after he posts that morning zoo hack fake bit Stern did with Artie "quitting".

Posted by: RangerLG | April 27, 2008 12:57 PM"

he already did, dummy. So did JUST ABOUT every news sourse

>> 1.2 million subs x $13 = $15.6 million per month x 12 = $187.2 million a year. Not only does Howard pay for himself ($100 million per year) he produces $87.2 million in profit each year .

Profit on a project is the incremental revenue less the incremental expense.

Incremental expense includes all variable costs of providing the service, not just the $150 Milllion/y (not $100M/y) paid to Stern. Furthermore, in Stern's case, it includes the CPGA of adding subscribers at a time when it was exceptionally expensive for Sirius to do so.

At this point, it is highly unlikely SIRI can even come close to breaking even on the Stern deal.

Also, ARPU is $11, not $13.

"Sorry to have confused you.

Posted by: Stack Pointer | April 26, 2008 10:58 PM"

Me, Im good, My shows fine.

Your right Stack, Howards show did not make any improvment, STILL JUST #1!!!!

regarding sterns subs, revenue, and profits. howard 100 and 101 also run commercials. i think that revenue needs to be thrown in the mix when discussing is stern was or is worth his salary.

"Sorry to have confused you.

Posted by: Stack Pointer | April 26, 2008 10:58 PM"

Your right Stack, you did cofuse me. I've been confused for two weeks waiting on you to post your proof that XM has "DEEPER" cuts then Sirius. (YOUR WEEKLY CLAIM) more proof than you saying "TRUST" me it true. I say that Sirius Deep Tracks has deerer cuts than XM. I have no proof. I say that both have about the same music, content is king, and Howad is the KING

>>> does these numbers imply that Stern has leveled off?

It would certainly seem that way to this neophyte>>>>

but the #'s are incorrect, or are they????????????????

DANG, I HATE BEING THE ONLY ONE UP LATE WHEN I HAVE MADE SOME "GREAT" POINTS!!

What I am waiting is the post that say that the #'s are ok for Howard but are low for O and A!!!

ok ryan.. you got a plug on OnA this morning... Now give us your explanation.

>> Your right Stack, you did cofuse me. I've been confused for two weeks waiting on you to post your proof that XM has "DEEPER" cuts then Sirius. (YOUR WEEKLY CLAIM) more proof than you saying "TRUST" me it true. I say that Sirius Deep Tracks has deerer cuts than XM. I have no proof. I say that both have about the same music, content is king, and Howad is the KING

I assume you mean the Vault versus Deeptracks? And if you do mean that, you're nuts. There is no comparison.

The music is not the same. As pointed out by Homer above, XM has 9 of the top 10 ranked music channels, and 14 of the top 20. Homer also pointed out that Deeptracks is #41 out of all 145 music channels, while the Vault comes in at #72.

It also shows in the ratings that deeper tracks do not get more ratings. It is the hits channels that acquire the ratings. So who cares who has deeper tracks. That is not what sells. you all are the minority.

I think Father Mott is very uninformed with that response. While it is true, the hits channels are the lowest common denominator on both satrad carriers, thats only because they offer something for everyone. For example, as a rock person, I listen to Squizz a lot, but I sometimes tune into Hitlist and Top 20. I leave it on Squizz, because that is my favorite, but sometimes I like a little sampling from other channels. I will listen for 5-10 minutes, but for long periods of time, it stays on Squizz, Ethel, or Lucy. Somebody who is into Rap or R&B might listen to the Rap/R&B channels, but can also tune to Top 20 or Hitlist sometimes as well. So while it may have a lot of people that tune in for short periods of time, I think that TSL would be higher on a deeper track channel, or at least a more genre specific channel.

Eric Logan (Executive Vice President of Programming) was on O&A today, blah blah blah blah.

Said that by XM's findings (they ask actual XM subscribers what they listen to) O&A are the number one most listened to channel on XM. Which has more active subscribers than Sirius. Howard Stern fucking sucks. You people that didnt make the switch are all idiots.

Thank you.

Ron and Fez 12-3

Sirius better hope Howard sticks around into his 60's , according to these numbers the company is clearly a one trick pony.

Well, if you want to put stock in arbitron's SDAR ratings and except for Howard fanboy's I don't think anyone does, it appears that XM's 20 on 20, which did not get a billion dollar contract, pulls as many listeners as Stern. Hmmmm. Either these ratings are really off or the old man is overpaid by about $999,000,000

Ok, Howard wwins, O & A lose. Life goes on. now go and fuck your mothers.

There's no spin. I've seen the numbers directly from XM's inhouse for my job. O&A and The Virus beat Howard's channel ridiculously.

By Father Mott's logic, they should play nothing but Stern on every channel at Sirius and XM. Clearly, since he's the most popular satellite option there's no need for anything else. Just think how much money the combined company could save by not storing all that music (and paying those licensing fees) or paying the various sports leagues or all those other talkers.

The scary part is that you know that there are plenty of executives at the two companies thinking the same way. Why else are we seeing more and more stations focusing on single acts?

It would be fascinating to see the complete internal accounting numbers on all the Stern related revenues and expenses. Obviously, Howard will trumpet the rough revenue numbers (heck, he's got to encourage Sirius to pay him another huge contract soon *g*). But a look at the expense side (outside of salary) would be useful.

Still, Sirius was getting crushed before the Stern signing. So they were desperate and the signing kept them alive for a few more years. And gave them a shot at acquiring XM. We just don't know yet whether it will actually turn Sirius into a profitable company down the road.

>>> It would be fascinating to see the complete internal accounting numbers on all the Stern related revenues and expenses.

There is plenty of publicly available information to see what he has cost Sirius. The total money paid to him in stock or cash over 5 years approaches 3/4 billion -- 150M/year. But that's not the worst of it, because for every "Stern sub" there are annual costs of customer support, fees paid to RIAA and for other music royalties, and the big one -- the CPGA for the receivers.

When you add all these expenses up -- ALL expenses which would not have been incurred without the Stern deal, there is no way the break even on it. Particularly, with retail apparently drying up, and now these figures suggesting that Stern's audience isn't growing -- and a transition to OEM sales (which aren't influenced by Stern's presence) -- the deal is every bit as bad as I've always complained it would turn out to be. Now, Sirius is totally reliant on Stern going forward as these numbers show, and Sirius really doesn't have the money for another $150m/y deal when this one is up. Stern may well take his customers somewhere else. Then what?

The Stern deal was an absolute disaster for Sirius, and every day that goes by it becomes even more obvious. One day, there may even be others besides me who believe it.

There is one worse business deal than Stern that has been made in the short history of satellite radio. That was the idiotic deal XM's management made to merge with Sirius (at a meager 4.6:1 ratio, in which XM shareholders were ripped off by a wide margin) and which destroyed any possibility of XM ever turning a profit.

These two companies combined incompetence is unparalleled in American business.

spin part 2..ready set SPIN,,,,,,,,

Terrestrial ratings came out yesterday

"Morning hosts Opie and Anthony of WXRK (92.3 FM), who just signed a new contract, took a big drop. WRXP (101.9 FM), which switched from smooth jazz to alternative rock, also declined."

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/2008/04/29/2008-04-29_don_imus_tops_old_ratings_luis_jimenez_u.html

happy spin

you spend a lot of time on o&a for a hater.

google isnt hard to master,and there is such a enjoyment to watch the sheep(pests) get OWNED over and over and over and over and over again

"howards irrelevent"
yup math sucks!

I can't wait until my sister gets home so I can bang her.. I'm a douche.

MORNINGS: WINS (7.2), WHTZ (5.9), WBLS (4.3), WSKQ & WLTW (3.9), WCBS-AM (3.5), WRKS (3.3), WCAA & WABC (3.2), WCBS-FM & WQHT (3.1), WPAT-FM (3.0), WAXQ & WPLJ (2.8), WWPR (2.7), WOR (2.6), WKTU (2.4), WFAN (2.3), WQXR (1.9), WWFS (1.8), WADO & WXRK (1.7).


P
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I have never in my life seen such hatred and vitriol for a couple of people who do a radio show 5 days a week. I'm sorry Greg and Tony fucked you in the ass. But life goes on. If they're as awful as you say, they'll get themselves fired. Have a sad existance while others find jobs, have families and actually experience life to the fullest while you focus on 2 people who don't even care about you or your feelings. You are the total lose.

did you say something?i saw alot of cunty whining above

wash the sand out of your vag

"you spend a lot of time on o&a for a hater".
Posted by: pfreak | April 29, 2008 9:41 AM

Against Ignorance The Very Gods Toil In Vain!!!

fuck opie and anthony i had xm before and didnt know them or howard, and after listening to that shit, i was so glad when i decided to try sirius. way funnier, and much better music choices.. opie and anthony are sad