If Microsoft was stupid enough to include XM they would get exactly what was coming to them. Lets look at the ballpark numbers.

XM added 450k "retail" subs in Q2
450,000 subs
280,000 dropped the service
--------------------------
170,000 subs remained of which 140,000 are $6/month subs who are taking advantage of the family plan.

XM garnered less than 30,000 (new) full paying subs through retail.

If Microsoft thinks that will help them sell the Zune they are in for a rude awakening. Consumers have spoken, XM is not the Sat radio service of choice. Adding XM to the Zune will not create any demand and the passport slot will be looked at like a tumor.

"With the iPod lacking even an FM radio, this could be a big advantage."

This is yet another example of Microsoft, and every other 'ipod killer', not getting it. If people really wanted radio in their players, one of the others would have taken off. The Ipod may do a limited amount of things, but it does them beutifully. Adding Satellite Radio is nice for us geeks (if Apple put out a SirIpod, I'd buy one tommorow) but I don't think the general public will care.

Apple has the advantage of an integrated, vertical solution that Microsoft can't hope to duplicate. They'll try, but it will be clumsy and poorly executed. I guarantee it. It's Microsoft. That's what they do.

This is ultimately an attempt by Microsoft to ram their "plays for sure" (HA!!) DRM solution down the public's throat. It will fail. It's too restrictive and too many people have too much invested in their Ipod's.

The XBOX 360 might succeed simply because Sony keeps fucking everything up with ridiculous pricing (even then I'm not convinced that the Wii won't emerge as #1 in the console wars). That won't happen with Apple.

Microsoft should stick to releasing it's crappy, bloated office software and OS. There's plenty of suckers and dumb IT Dept's out there willing to buy that.

Naughty speculation here. If XM marketed the Inno right they wouldnt need to partner with the Zune. Now i know what the other side is will say. "This opens the door for Ipod to integrate Sirius". Never going to happen. Nobody will ever take down the iPod, and it doesnt need Sat Radio to stay on top. Definitely not a big and hot running Sirius chip.

Joe Blow, at one point XM was on top, sure the tide has changed (Thank Howie). You really think XM has no chance taking back the market? Get real sir.

Also, XM is integrated into WMP. That could be all this includes. The Zune will feature a form of WMP, no question about that.

I have heard it else where so I will add it hear.

WiFi? Are you serious. That is so stupid. It should work off of the sats not a WiFi network that is so speratic and costs additional money.

Now my thought is Zune with XM because Sirius is with Zing. Remember the Zing guys WAS an Apple/Microsoft guy. Maybe Microsoft wants to get back at the guy.

tussel (aka raymone)- I am really starting to look forward to your constant slamming of Sirius products. It almost makes me laugh. Have you even owned the service ever?

As for Ipod getting taking down. Sure if there was a company that marketed like Apple it could happen. The Ipod is laid out really bad. I just don't like the button layout.

MikeHunt: You're right, I'm sure Xbox Live and the game selection would have nothing to do with the 360's success... :rollseyes:

I love XM's business model, low SAC, big OEM deals. The reason why I think they will never take back the market is because I've listened extensively and concluded that they do not have a clue how to program radio.

To me XM sounds like an empty warehouse with 69 Ipods on shuffle and the D list of talk talent is in the basement making Internet radio quality talk shows.

I think they are lost. They seem to be trying to hold on to their employees which is odd as well. Joe Eutuer is still there, Lee Abrams, Panero. Q3 is going to be a bloodbath for both companies but XM will still be on the bottom. Mark my words. XM needs to fire everyone and start over.

I thought MS was working with Sirius on the mobile video car project.

Why would they work with XM for one project and Sirius the other?

"Nothing will kill the Ipod." What crap. Of course something will, it is just a matter of time. Are you still using your tape walkman? No? Because the discman killed it stupid. What will kill it, I dunno. But to claim that nothing will come along is to be ignorant of history. At that point Apple computers will finally fall into total bankruptcy like they were supposed to do before this stupid mp3 player gave them a temporary repreve.

in case you haven't noticed jackass, apple sells more than just ipods. Everything they do is just hands down better than the competition. Will the market change? Sure and apple will be leading the change, not going bankrupt.

joe blow? your just another fool who uses the "poor XM numbers" to your advantage. Fact remains that XM gross was over 900,000. The disconects remain low on a percentage basis while Sirius has more than 25% of their base in unchurnable periods. but .. joe blow does not realize that.. he just uses the overall number without any knoladge of the full story.

as for my thoughts... I agree that the Zune will probable have XM simply cause of WMP10 where XM is already embedded.. don't beleive me? go look at your windows media player.. if its 10 .. its in there. This may not be a good thing for XM tho... it may push Apple to add Sirius.

Could this be why Google decided to join XM? Think of the potential this could have on the Zune. I'm not really a Microsoft fan, but as a graphic designer, this could be huge!

Microsoft didn't partner with XM for WMP because they had more subs. They partnered with them because they had the technology to deliver origonal content over the internet for its WMP.

XM being in Zune would be the next logical step for MS/XM. I don't feel that this will hurt the inno sales because the zune is only wifi and not off the sats and it will not get all 170 channels(unless they change the stream for Zune) and it won't be able to record content(IMO).

As far as this making Apple choosing Sirius......As a consumer you look at features. If both of them have XM then the two devices will be more competitive then Zune with XM and iPod with Sirius. "Zune has this but guess what....we do too"

Apple would never let Howard Stern be promoted with their devices next to him.

1. This is all speculation taken from some random blog site. Microsoft has not added XM to the Zune. There are a few of you that need to realize that blog sites are right less than 50% of the time.

2. Jeff- You are a baffoon. How dare I use XM poor numbers? THOSE ARE THE ONLY NUMBERS THEY HAVE!!! Sirius has 4.7 million subs with an ARPU (average revenue per user) of $11. This is for all subs including the unchurnable subs. XM signs up 500k unchurnable subs every quarter then loses them the following quarter.

Here are the facts. XM loses over 60% of all gross subscribers and has a non existent retail presence. Sirius loses less than 40%. of their gross subs per quarter and controls retail.

Why would microsoft want a company with a tiny retail demand when they can have one with a strong retail demand? They are out to sell the Zune not make friends with the underdogs at XM. The next time XM beats Sirius in a quarter I will drop the "underdog" moniker. Regardless of past performance they lost 3 straight quarters and there is no research indicating that they will be winning one anytime soon.

Jeff you are an idiot and you know nothing of these stocks or companies. You are merely quoting comments you read on random message boards and its obvious. Shut up!

ahigee said "Apple would never let Howard Stern be promoted with their devices next to him."

Yeah that is exactly what the new owners of snaple said but look what happened to them. They canned Howard and the Snapple lady and what happened to their market share.

Steven Singer Jewelers in Philly. 1 Store what happened when he joined the advertising mix. His sales sky rocketed across the country.

Sure Apple doesn't NEED his advertising but hell it can't hurt.

Hell look what happened to the Norelco Body groomer. They were on his Sirius Show and they sold out at every Target I went to in most of the big cities in Eastern PA. And yes I am counting multiple target stores from Philly to Lancaster and Philly to Allentown.

Call it quinsetice (sp?) but I wouldn't be surprised if it had something to do with it.

HA! I love it! when Zing announced their partnership with Siri the XM Fans said it was dumb. "Streaming sat radio over an MP3 player, no thanks! I have my pocket PC that can do that!"

Blah Blah, Blahhh...

now that the Zune is rumored to stream XM, the concept of an MP3 player streaming sat radio is an awesome idea!

Philmore.....we laughed because it's Sirius's first portable type device but yet it's not even from Sirius and plus is heavily disabled(not all channels and no record function). Thats why we thought it was dumb. XM has had true portables for 2 years now.

5 portables...versus 0 from Sirius. Congrats Philmore.(numbers don't count the poss. Zune and Zing).

At retail people will look at Zing as the red headed step-child compared to Microsoft and Apple.

oh ahigee, the most uninformed person when it comes to sat radio. all 5 portables have helped xm how? last i checked sirius was wrecking xm in retail!

wifi on a portable device is key because it allows the user to listen to live radio in train stations, airports, cafe's, and in all other places you can not get sat reception (europe?)

at retail if people want an mp3 player, they will most likely by an ipod. if they want sat radio, they will go to the car audio section and buy a sat radio.

now if a sat radio was on the market that not only received live signal in the car, at home, on the go (built in antenna) and also had wifi built in...that would be HUGE.

Sirius was smart with waiting to release a "true" portable. i mean after all, who'd want to build a radio that has a 47% return rate?

I look forward to your comments when the Stiletto specs are finally released.

oh yeah, hows that MLB working out for XM? oprah launches next month, i still dont see any retail movement from xm.

and BTW...Zing is software, not hardware. if you did a little research you would have known that. check out zing.net for full details. if the Zune has Zing in it, you can bet your trailor home it will not stream XM.

P.S o and a party sucks. good luck at your next sticker stop. LMFAO!

5 portables? Are you counting units that are EXACTLY the same? Because by my record changing the color doesn't make it a whole new product, in which case Xm has 2 not 5. And the first one sucked ass and had a terrible return rate, and the Inno and Helix aren't selling too well in my neck of the woods (just north of DC - at my Best Buy and ones around me). So, while yes you are right that XM did it first, it would have been better if they did it right.

Philmore,
unfortunately if the rumor was reversed, and that XM would be the first to stream, we would be hearing the same thing from Sirius Fans about how dumb it is and why XM has other things to worry about. Then later we would find out how cool it is when Sirius announces a streaming partnership.

It seems like thats how opinions are at this site...it is awesome if your company or talk radio show does something, but is dumb if the other does it.

Apple would be bankrupt today had Microsoft not bailed them out. Remember? Remember?