Sirius' recent television ad spots, and now print ads, have reportedly asked people to "join over 17 million Sirius listeners" - which begs the question... where does this number come from?The latest subscriber numbers show Sirius at 8.6 million subscribers, while XM has 9.3 million subscribers. So if we were talking about subscribers, the above number would only work out if the two were combined.
But the ad says listeners. And if we were to believe Arbitron's latest satellite radio ratings (though, we probably shouldn't), Sirius has only 7 million listeners while XM has 10.4 million. Again, a combined total would be needed to bring us to the number listed in the advertisement.
More than likely, the "17 million listeners" statement comes from internal metrics - accounting for just over 2 listeners per subscriber - even though I can't see this explained in the fine print. But it's still enough to raise a curious eyebrow.
See the full print ad after the jump...
As much as I would LOVE it to be a bit of foreshadowing, I am pretty sure that about a year ago, Sirius introduced that whole "listener" metric on one of their conference calls...
Just Sirius lying some more.....
Dosent surprise me.
It's "Howie-math" at its' finest.
From what I understand its industry standard to account for "approximately" 2 listeners per radio. That is what studies have shown in terrestrial land, apparently.
Nothing "curious" here, the ad is 100% accurate. Most subs have multiple listeners.
It's a simple concept, only hard to understand by the type of dopes who think that bad ratings on satellite AND terrestrial = "winning in the end".
Arbitron uses averages and does not target satellite radio users. Their satellite radio ratings are based on incedental listing of XM or Sirius usage added to terrestrial radio diaries. It makes Arbitron data questionable at best.
XM did commission Arbitron at one point to track XM listening -- directly. Where XM customers were targeted and then tracked for their listening habits. That data has never been publicly released -- and XM eventually discontinued the service. It was this service along with their own research that XM was able to estimate approximately 2.1~2.4 listeners per subscription (I believe that is the figure I was told, but it was 3 years ago). Regardless, it was over 2 per sub.
The thing to remember is that they don't have to be listening all at one time. My wife has a RoadyXT that I listen to on occasion... that makes us 2 listeners for that one sub. Even though we don't listen at the same time. There is nothing creative in the 17 million listeners claim.
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Multiple Listeners per Sub + Internet listeners
I work for an A/V company and have personally installed around 10 Sirius units. Of those 10 units, 9 were hooked up to a distributed audio system that served as the source of music for back office employees. Recently, I hooked up systems using Sonos and another that used a 70-volt amp/reciever using Sirius Online and the Yahoo Widget. A quick calculation of the number of "listeners" resulting from the 10 units and thus 10 subscriptions I have installed equals around 350 people. This is most likely an abnormal situation but it provides evidence that the number of listeners per subscription is well over a 1:1 ratio.
I heard the same thing on TV today!! I thought to myself...nah I must have misheard/misinterpreted the commercial..In my books, after seeing AND hearing this..there HAS..and WILL be an announcement Monday morning..I've never felt more sure then I do right now.
Yawn. Satellite radio is dead. Merger or not. You have iPods that control the retail market. And you might have that Microsoft Sync shit that is in most cars that offer you that "free" subscription to Sirius.
You can have 30 million listeners. Still bleeding cash. Stern and NFL should want more money because of all these people listening. My asshole.
"Total net adds of 323k came in-line with consensus of 326k. Weak retail net adds of 2.5k (management attributed weakness to consumer macro and merger confusion)"
http://seekingalpha.com/article/77081-analysts-weigh-in-on-sirius-following-earnings
So that means that 320,000 of Sirius's last quarter subscribers never chose Sirius? They just bought a car that had Sirius already installed and active. Content is King!
Has anyone else noticed on their Sirius account information that it now lists the "package" you are subscribing to? I assume this is the first step to offering a la carte programming. I am sure for now everyone is subscribed to the "Everything" package. I just thought it was interesting.
My guess would be they are including internet listeners...
My guess would be they are including internet listeners...
My guess would be they are including internet listeners...
Common practice in media. A newspaper or magazine can have more "readers" than subscribers.
Perhaps they count the empty seats in the unsold cars as listeners...why not, they count the car as a sub....
My wife listens to sirius, my sons also...every time they get in my car....but I'm the only one with a sub.
When I go to a worksite, I put on sirius and everyone else on the site listens also. I've sold more subs this way than you can imagine...
How many places of work out there has a person with sirius supplying Stern to the entire office staff?
I think 17 million might be a low ball number!
Why in the world would you think that is curious ???
The US has a population of 300 Million , NAB claims on their website to having
235 Million listeners or almost 80% of the US population !!!!
"Based on extensive consumer research conducted last year, we know that radio has a great story to tell. It connects, informs and inspires an estimated 235 million listeners each week."
Are we to assume terrestial radios claim of 235 Million Listeners is also CURIOUS !!!!!!
It is including the DISH NETWORK listeners into that figure. Can't believe anyone else missed this one.
It is including the DISH NETWORK listeners into that figure. Can't believe anyone else missed this one.
It is including the DISH NETWORK listeners into that figure. Can't believe anyone else missed this one.
It accounts for the people listening via the DISH NETWORK service. DId we all forget about that?
Word games by Sirius.
They should estimate the number of customers who walk through a BB, CC, etc., and hear a demo radio. They could claim another 10m listeners!
Just big parking lots. You should brag about the number of readers you have by adding up all the posts in these comments. You could count all the jackasses who post their same comment like Ryan above. We are all a little dumber for reading your comment...4 times.
So, if my girlfriend heard my Sat radio yesterday in the car for 15 minutes, does that make her a "listener" for the entire month or something? how long do you have to tune in to be counted? I personally have 2 subs and I would say that between the two, there is only one listener, me. Most people I know with either XM or Sirius are this way. They have it in the car and are the only one who uses it. Im guessing these office/restaurant/gym installs are where they pull this number from. Too bad the listeners dont bring revenue, just the subs.
//Nothing "curious" here, the ad is 100% accurate. Most subs have multiple listeners//
Given that, at any given time, about 500k of those subs are empty cars waiting to be sold, I think the claim is asinine.
It could be the internet and dish network but also the imagined listeners.. the ones that think they hear radio without a radio.. that's right.. the insane... thank you have a chocky and a nice listen...
Satellite + Dish Network...
It is just a way for SIRI to make sat radio look bigger and more attractive than it is. Nothing new here.
By attributing multiple listeners to a single receiver they can make the claim and nobody will notice.
Except orbitcast, I guess...
Funny how Sirius claims 2.1 listeners per sub and XM claims 1.8.... Fuzzy Math based on Fuzzy Suscriber numbers?
No wonder XM still gets more advertizing revenue than Sirius... people who place the adds are privy to the 17 million listener claim and the Fuzzy math behind it.
Funny how Sirius claims 2.1 listeners per sub and XM claims 1.8.... Fuzzy Math based on Fuzzy Suscriber numbers?
No wonder XM still gets more advertizing revenue than Sirius... people who place the adds are privy to the 17 million listener claim and the Fuzzy math behind it.
Look at it and analyze it any way you want but Sirius can legally say this. The DOJ approved the merger, so they could legally be counting both Sirius and Xm subscribers. As far as the DOJ is concerened the 2 companies are 1.If they wanted to apply their 2.1 listeners for every sub, you can reason 2.1 x (8.6 +9.3) = 37.59 million listeners and they still could be correct. Maybe, that analyst who predicted the 55 million by 2012 was using this wacky math?
DOGSHIT
You know what I love: People who call satellite radio bullshit or useless and then make it a point to go OUT OF THEIR WAY to find a Sat Radio Website with a discussion board, and post messages saying how much that Sat Radio sucks!!
Its hilarious... and even better the postings arent even substantial, they are like "wow Satrad sucks". Sounds like either the elderly, unemployed, or kids who havent gotten laid yet, because a job or gash tends to keep you off websites. As for me, I have a vested interest in seeing all this go through well, so getting the inside scoop is important.
That is one gorgeous ad!
Arbitron defines a listener as someone who tunes in for a minimum of 5 minutes of one quarter hour of a daypart.
What that means is someone who listens for at least 5 (out of 15) minutes to a program is credited as a listener -- and a part of the CUME. So if someone listened on a Monday from 7:15A to 7:22A to Squizz -- they are credited with one quarter and counted into the CUME of that channel. However if they only listened from 7:15A to 7:19A, they would not have been credited.
Each person that listens to a DARS channel for at least 5 minutes during a week (Mon-Sun, 6A-12M), is therefore considered a "listener"... at least via Arbitron's definition.
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That is just like them saying the best radio on radio, another lie!. Want to hear another lie? , the service will be better after the merge. I'm getting an ipod touch anyway so it won't matter, let these idiots run a great concept right into the ground.
Why I dont get an Ipod? I am too lazy to download the songs and to cheap to pay 1 dollar per song ( I think I may be part Jew!)
I'm not a Sirius subscriber, but every time I go to Billy McHale's for dinner, I listen to Sirius (unfortunately, usually their 60's channel)...The restaurant probably holds a couple hundred people at a time.
Also, I agree, they're probably counting Dish Network listeners...So, as much as I don't like Sirius, I can't fault their advertising on this one...Between commercial accounts such as the restaurant I mentioned, Dish network listeners, online, and actual subscribers, I wouldn't be surprised if the number of people listening could easily be double the 17 million...Same for XM.
Yeah, we've all hear the "there are 2 listeners for ever 1 sub" bullshit. What about all the people (many on this site) that have multiple subs (I have 3 XM radio's & 1 Sirius) yet are the only listeners? By their math my 4 total subs would count as 8 listeners when in reality they are only 1. My GF listens to XM but it is infrequent and she certainly won't consider herself a listener while Sirius would without even asking her. Add these up along with parking lot subs and that 2 to 1 ratio is pure marketing crap.
Hooking up a radio to a business also doesn't translate into "listeners". I have office music playing all day and don't listen to any of it. It's just background white noise. Being a passive, non-subscribing listener does nothing to add to the bottom line of either company.
And this may indeed be illegal. Keep an eye on the future ads. If this line of legal is dropped it's because the risk of use is too great. If the line goes it means the company can't substantiate its claim.
I agree with crfco and Biased Truth-
the key word here is LISTENERS - it's a no-brainer that for every sub., there's likely to be on average and at minimum, 1-2 additional listeners. The math is simply accurate if not understated. The ad could also be speaking prophetically of things to come (merger); in which case they would run the ad again but change the language in the line to read: "Join over 17 million Sirius SUBSCRIBERS." Either way, it works.
Just Sirius lying some more.....
Dosent surprise me.
Posted by: Eatsleepdrivesc
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How do they lie? Parking lot subscribers? They include those numbers because they eventually get paid for them once the car is sold as deffered revenue. There is nothing wrong with how they spout their numbers.
Pretty soon mellie will start counting canceled subs as a sub.
this is listeners, not subscribers, which is used as a metric for advertising.....it was explained on a long-ago conference call
......and everyone of them listens to howie.
Its not a lie...
They are counting the 14 million Dish Network customers who get the Sirius Music Channels with their Dish Network subscription.
Its not a lie...
They are counting the Dish Network customers who get Sirius Music included with their Dish Network packages. Dish Network currently has over 14 million customers.
Its not a lie...
They are counting the Dish Network customers who get Sirius Music included with their Dish Network packages. Dish Network currently has over 14 million customers.
Quote - "Pretty soon mellie will start counting canceled subs as a sub."
They already do that.
Quote - "Pretty soon mellie will start counting canceled subs as a sub."
They already do that.
Scottie sweetheart, if they were counting Dish that would add up to 22 million listeners. And since Dish only gets commercial free music, that additional listenership wouldn't make any difference as to advertising rates. Did you know XM's also on Sat TV? Music channels & O&A. I guess they can then claim over 45 million listeners by that logic. Inflating listenership is damaging as it's done in an effort to raise stock prices based on a lie. It reeks of desperation.
When is sweeps week? Isn't his one of the times during the year that advertising rates are set?
17 million is definitely an underestimate.
I have an account with 3 radio/internet subscriptions that 8 people listen to, how many does that count as?
17 million is definitely an underestimate.
I have an account with 3 radio/internet subscriptions that 8 people listen to, how many does that count as?